Golf Talent Exists! So does Lack of Talent make it hopeless?

[Brian Manzella]

No.

 

[SteveT]

People who show up for your instruction and training have hope ... but those who don't want to show up and just hack are quite hopeless.

It's the hopeless one's who support the golf club industry ... they think they can buy a golfswing..!!!

 

[mgranato]

Not hopeless, just limited.

 

[ffejeff224]

I don't know about limited... I have always thought that hard work and skill go hand in hand. The more one works at something and devotes time, and training the better one gets. Sure some people are naturally better at some things than others, but with hard work an average or below average player can become a solid golfer.

 

[jpeck]

You can play surprisingly good golf with only minimal talent. It's all in the way you set things up. Carry clubs you can use, leave the others at home. Play shots you can actually make - you almost always have options. Find an instructor who can maximise your swing, and have him teach you the few shots you really need. Play to your own par.

You still have to put some effort into your game, but you can play any golf course in the world with a handful of clubs, a few shots you can pull off, and the confidence to negotiate the golf course in front of you on your own terms.

 

[birly-shirly]

Brian - why do you say "Golf talent exists"?

I need to read The Talent Code. Have you? There was some science alluded to by Malcolm Gladwell in Outliers that cast doubt on the idea of talent as anything innate, certainly anything innate that is capable of explaining outstanding success. I've seen similar ideas backed up elsewhere by reputable writers, although I agree that the idea runs counter to common sense and experience.

Closer to home, someone posted a Golf Academy excerpt of Butch and Tiger on another thread this week. I heard Butch at one point say that Greg Norman had been the hardest worker that he ever saw in golf, until he starting working with Tiger. I'm pretty sure that Faldo would have matched either in terms of workrate. So that's probably the best golf of the last 20 years covered by guys with a reputation for enormous amounts of work.

 

[aaron_lohan]

No.

I agree, attitude is what makes an athlete in any sport, talent helps the athlete reach the very top but almost anybody can become pretty good with the right attitude, work ethic, environment and coaching.

 

[Richie3Jack]

I've read parts of The Talent Code, it's very good.





3JACK

 

[jbrunk]

Brian - why do you say "Golf talent exists"?

I need to read The Talent Code. Have you? There was some science alluded to by Malcolm Gladwell in Outliers that cast doubt on the idea of talent as anything innate, certainly anything innate that is capable of explaining outstanding success. I've seen similar ideas backed up elsewhere by reputable writers, although I agree that the idea runs counter to common sense and experience.

Closer to home, someone posted a Golf Academy excerpt of Butch and Tiger on another thread this week. I heard Butch at one point say that Greg Norman had been the hardest worker that he ever saw in golf, until he starting working with Tiger. I'm pretty sure that Faldo would have matched either in terms of workrate. So that's probably the best golf of the last 20 years covered by guys with a reputation for enormous amounts of work.

So ther is hope for me being scratch yet.

 

[ffejeff224]

So ther is hope for me being scratch yet.

Yes!

 

[ggsjpc]

I thought Kevin Shields said something that is very accurate and took a lot of guts.

Very few people want to hear it but players that grow up with a certain skill set that is not in line with the skills necessary to play good golf, makes it is a challenge to get them good quickly.

I have not read the talent code and should before I discuss it but as a father of 4 children under 8, I can guarantee you they come out with different skills.

I don't think any parent would disagree with that.

Should I replace skills with the word talent? I'm not sure.

I also agree that skills can be learned, but no amount of coaching will get me to run with Usain Bolt.

Some gifts can not be learned in my opinion.

 

[Richie3Jack]

I thought Kevin Shields said something that is very accurate and took a lot of guts.

Very few people want to hear it but players that grow up with a certain skill set that is not in line with the skills necessary to play good golf, makes it is a challenge to get them good quickly.

I have not read the talent code and should before I discuss it but as a father of 4 children under 8, I can guarantee you they come out with different skills.

I don't think any parent would disagree with that.

Should I replace skills with the word talent? I'm not sure.

I also agree that skills can be learned, but no amount of coaching will get me to run with Hussein Bolt.

Some gifts can not be learned in my opinion.

You should get to read the Talent Code.

I think the book would say (and I've only read a bit of it) that Bolt would've never been as fast as he is if he had grown up in say, Beverly Hills and concentrated a good chunk of his time towards playing golf instead of running. Still the same guy per say, but his environment and upbringing would change and he would spend less time running and not developing his skills as a runner and his body as a runner.

The book goes into the fallacy that Mozart was 'born to write music' when in fact his father was a music teacher and they spent countless hours on music from a very young age.

It also gets into practicing and how one practices things....quality over quantity. IIRC, one marching band instructor said that he could tell when a band is practicing correctly because the music should not sound anything like the real thing. My sister used to be a music teacher and can pretty much play string instrument there is and I asked her about it and she agreed.

So....people may want to apply that to golf practice.

I think it's more or less that certain people are more aware of things than others and understand how to repeat the good things better than others.

I believe Hogan more or less figured out that the ball's initial direction was mostly due to where the clubface was pointing at impact (I know, that's not technically correct, but I think that's what Hogan believed as he finally figured it out). I think I would've never figured it out if it weren't for some instructors telling me this, like Brian.

Or Trevino, who basically figured out for him that if he aimed left and 'held on' he could practically hit any shot he wanted to and eliminate his uncontrollable hook. He then was able to replicate that time after time. OTOH, somebody like myself has had instances where they have to change something and start flushing it, but no matter how much we practice, the mechanics tend to devolve into something else and turn bad after awhile (that's why I practice with a camera almost every day --- make sure that I don't form new bad habits or get back into old habits).

Or in my case, I honestly believe I have world class clubface control with my swing. Some will say that is a talent and that I have 'great hands' or whatever. I just think that I've logged a countless amount of hours hitting balls either on the course or on the range and it's a skill I developed.

I think when it comes to being the very best ever, then it's a combination of physical attributes (often developed by the person over a long period of time), determination and luck. When it comes to being 'world class' but not the best, it's more about quality and quantity of training.





3JACK

 

[golfdad]

i think everyone has different definitions on things. to me, talent equates to potential or an earlier show of potential. my younger one can play violin well at an early age, without trying hard. a natural if you will, comparing with 99.99% of the population. but potential (or talent) does not mean success. in life, it seems that success is a more meaningful measure of accomplishment. to me, success takes interest, passion, work, work, work, the development of potential, the nurture of talent and be very lucky my kid is not that interested to play violin seriously. it becomes an education at best. 80% of what is required comes natural to her, but she has no interest to grind and work hard on the additional 20% to turn her gift into a success. yet, her story is far from atypical. we all have our own tales to some extent. gifted in something, but for one reason or another, we can talk about it now, but never developed it then.

golf-wise, sure, some people are better off becoming a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant or a generic gym teacher. but everyone has potential to be much better, but most don't have the potential to be a pro golfer. ( the bell curve argues against everyone becoming a pga player even if we all work very hard. not going to happen. )

so set some ambitious but reasonably realistic goals and lose yourself in the pursuit. if you fail, at least you've got some exercise out of it

 

[SteveT]

i think everyone has different definitions on things. to me, talent equates to potential or an earlier show of potential. my younger one can play violin well at an early age, without trying hard. a natural if you will, comparing with 99.99% of the population. but potential (or talent) does not mean success. in life, it seems that success is a more meaningful measure of accomplishment. to me, success takes interest, passion, work, work, work, the development of potential, the nurture of talent and be very lucky my kid is not that interested to play violin seriously. it becomes an education at best. 80% of what is required comes natural to her, but she has no interest to grind and work hard on the additional 20% to turn her gift into a success. yet, her story is far from atypical. we all have our own tales to some extent. gifted in something, but for one reason or another, we can talk about it now, but never developed it then.

Is that the same daughter who you showed on that swing video? If it is, what you must realize that she growing physically and maturing into her final optimal form. The brain also grows, but more importantly, the brain creates stronger connections within itself when challenged ... the brain muscles up, so to speak.

Your violin-playing, golfing daughter will have a strongly developed brain structure that will sustain her through life. Music is equivalent to a second language and golf is a physical challenge to the brain. I would suggest she participate in other sports too, because golf is somewhat solitary in it's training and development. She sounds like a winner, congrats.

 

[golfdad]

thanks steve for your wise words. no, the violin kid is my younger one. the older one you saw used to play piano but quit since starting high school,,,too much going on.

i particularly like the idea of a team sport which i think teaches a person a lot of life, in a different way from golf. i am going to talk with her and probably find one that she is least "talented" in and start building from ground zero

so much to do, so little time.

 

[birdie_man]

Is potential the same as talent?

 

[natep]

Is potential the same as talent?

I don't think so.

Potential is how good you can possibly be.

Talent is how easily you can reach your potential.

 

[Burner]

Thats backasswards.

I don't think so.

Potential is how good you can possibly be.

Talent is how easily you can reach your potential.

You cannot be good without talent and you cannot fulfil your potential without nurturing that latent talent. So,

Talent with work = potential achieved.

Talent without work = potential not achieved..

 

[spuds]

With golf there is a talent but not necessarily a physical one. The ability to concentrate and handle pressure, might be the best talent you could be born with.