Good simple golf

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tongzilla

tongzilla

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Can we just use the same ball position (ala Nicklaus) and aim square at the target for all full swings and have a straight ball flight at the flag without and weird compensations? This is the way golf should be played (or the way I want to play it haha). See ball, aim ball at target, hit ball at target.

I'm fed up with having to aim x amount left for different clubs and angle of attacks and hand paths and club path blah blah blah...
 
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softconsult

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In essence, the D-Plane flew right over your head!

Sorry, couldn't resist. "Can we just use the same ball position" if you change the word "we", to "I" then you don't need approval from anyone.
 
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golfdad

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I think tonzilla has a point here. (although I don't think it is a fact that Nicklaus has the "same" ball position. I think he has the ball equal distance to one foot and then change the other foot spacing according to clubs)

The knowledge from the D plane understanding is "a" if not "the" crucial part of understanding the science behind ball flight making. Trackman and its use can help many folks to turn on the switch so to speak so that they don't have to search and experiment in the dark. Its value is undeniable.

Yet, for some people, they may feel bogged down with this load of info.

Rarely do we come across folks with no swing faults, and I mean those faults that even trackman aided teaching may not be able to correct immediately. (don't ask me why,,you folks are the teachers:)

Because of this reality of the abundance of imperfect golfers, extra mental load may liberate some but complicate the execution of a golf swing for others. Some people need simpler or no swing thoughts, that is all.

Similarly, perhaps some enjoy thinking of how many inches outside the cup to aim for a putt; others go with a feel and if that feel is disrupted by science, the outcome may be worse.

In other words, knowing more allows some to know more but does not necessarily lead to a better golfer.
 
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Mike O

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tongzilla said:
Can we just use the same ball position (ala Nicklaus) and aim square at the target for all full swings and have a straight ball flight at the flag without and weird compensations? This is the way golf should be played (or the way I want to play it haha). See ball, aim ball at target, hit ball at target.

I'm fed up with having to aim x amount left for different clubs and angle of attacks and hand paths and club path blah blah blah...
Click to expand...

Are you running up and then jumping out of the ground at impact also?
 
magicmarker

magicmarker

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tongzilla said:
Can we just use the same ball position (ala Nicklaus) and aim square at the target for all full swings and have a straight ball flight at the flag without and weird compensations? This is the way golf should be played (or the way I want to play it haha). See ball, aim ball at target, hit ball at target.

I'm fed up with having to aim x amount left for different clubs and angle of attacks and hand paths and club path blah blah blah...
Click to expand...

The more you practice the latter, the easier it is to achieve the former (though I think you'll still find enough of a variety of lies on the course that can affect ball position).
 
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Mike O

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tongzilla said:
not sure why you would say that, but no. Or was that a joke? lol
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That was a joke Tong - just seemed crazy to really try to implement D-Plane down to minutia and varying for each club, etc. You can procedurally take these things out of context or implement them in extreme, exaggerated or non appropriate ways. For me understanding what affects the balls starting direction and how it curves or doesn't was important IF I needed to correct a problem or perform a certain shot, at least it would help however the ball would tell me what happened at impact and I could change or make a subtle adjustment to fix that, I didn't need to get out my calculator for each shot. On a very simple and practical level if I was using a wedge and hitting it straight at the target and my divot appeared way left - I wouldn't have to be concerned or think I came over the top, etc. No panic needed. I don't need to conscioulsy aim 2.4 degrees left to hit it straight - even if I could isolate it down to 4/10ths of one degree- if I'm able to hit it straight - i've done it. You've taken a "fact" and tried to implement it as a procedure- and you realize it's a crazy idea.

For exmple Jenohayen was talking about someone pointing out that his left heel was off the ground at impact - let's face it someone could take the thought of "run up, then jump" and exaggerate the heck out of that and really go places you shouldn't go. Or take a "normal force or normal to the force" and start pulling the club towards your belly - one way to do it I guess but not a requirement - but lots of ways to take basic "facts" and completely get it wrong or create exaggerated movements. I just see mis-application happening everywhere based on some "fact".

Brian's bringing up the issue that just because you have shaft lean at impact doesn't mean that you want to try to have shaft lean at impact - just becuase you see it doesn't mean you try to do it or doesn't mean that you would feel that - I'm on board with that, however then he posts up a picture of a golfer from down the line into the follow-thru/ finish and essentially says you'd what to try to do that or feel that- maybe on one level however that's the same violation of principle as the handle dragger issue.

For example - let's say there is no tangential force on the shaft at impact, no "force against the shaft - FATS", that doesn't mean that you don't try to put force against the shaft, it may or it may not, but over and over you have a "fact" and then people are leaping to the conclusion "therefore I should do that(if it's happening) or not do that(if it's not happening)" - that's a huge mistake.
 
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tongzilla

tongzilla

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Enjoyed your thoughts and discourse Mike. Yes there is a problem of "see x do x" whether x is handle dragging or a bent left wrist. The point is you're trying to do something you see in a picture that may not be what you need. So I wonder when Brian says he will teach that bent left wrist attitude to good players he means he will tell them to actively try to do that or do it via some other means.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
I have good players who have told me that they have read the RELEASE THREAD and worked on it themselves and are hitting it much better.

Through the ball—for a good player—there had better be a good reason to keep the left wrist flat all the way to the swivel.

Now a slicer.....still think it can help.
 
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