Great day at the range but....questions....

[ukhacker]

Today was my best day at the range in a long time. Really compressing the ball well. I was almost hitting fades and draws on demand. I must say though I was hitting my fades better than my draws.

To hit a fade I was simply bending my right wrist back on the backswing and making sure that the club face matched my spine angle when the shaft was parallel to the target line on the way back and then on the way through. On the way down I had a real strong feeling of leading with my right elbow and really mashing the ball, doing very little with the club face. Now is this hitting and does hitting basically mean fading the ball?

I found hitting the draw a little more unpredictable. I was doing the same things in the backswing (ie getting the face parallel to my spine angle) and really bashing down on the ball. The only difference was a feeling of turning the left arm though the ball (ie swivel). I hit some decent draws but had a tendency to over cook the draw and hit a few pull hooks. Any ideas how I overcome this? Do I merely roll through the ball less, or should the club face be toe up when the shaft is parallel to the ground on the backswing and downswing? Also is this swinging? (ie hitting a draw)

Also one final thing – I found it a lot easier banging down on the ball and really compressing the ball when I was hitting the fade, seeing that I didn’t have to do anything major with the club face. Therefore would everyone agree that hitting a fade is easier than a draw?

 

[MizunoJoe]

It sounds like you are hitting the back of the ball instead of the inside of it. Do your "draws" start out toward the target and end up left of it, or do they start out right of the target and move toward it?

 

[ukhacker]

They start at the target and move off to the left.

 

[MizunoJoe]

You're hitting hooks and pull hooks. The real solution is to learn to hit the inside of the ball. You cannot hit a pull hook if you hit the inside of the ball. The intent to hit the inside of the ball will force many good things to happen - a flat(or better yet, an arched) left wrist, hands leading the clubhead, and a good pivot. Once you get this you will be on a new level. You will be able to play a true draw and not worry about the left rough.

 

[ukhacker]

Thanks for your help MizunoJoe.

Do you have any particular drills that will help me hit the inside part of the ball?

Do I need a closed stance to hit the inside part of the ball?

Would you suggest that I get the clubface parallel to my spine angle when the shaft is parallel to the ground on the way back and then again on the way down?

Does hitting a draw always mean that you are swinging, and hitting a fade you are a hitter?

 

[MizunoJoe]

No problem, I'm just passing on what Ben Doyle told me and took me 6 yrs to finally realize.

Drill - Try to get the hosel past the ball before the clubface strikes it.

You don't need a closed stance. But, I use a downswing plane which is cross-line(slightly to the right of the target).

The leading edge of the club should be in the plane of the downswing.(I think this is what you are asking). This is for Swinging.

Drawing/Fading is independent of Swinging/Hitting.

 

[ryantiff]

Joe,
"The leading edge of the club should be in the plane of the downswing.(I think this is what you are asking). This is for Swinging."

Does that mean more toe up? I am a swinger and am still perfecting the right arm takeaway with a fanning motion, the club is in a more "closed" position, might be still doing something wrong, benting the right wrist and fanning in the backswing, the clubface maintain its orginal angle, more face down. In Brian's article, twisting away, produce the same effect. May be still not doing right. Thanks.

 

[mb6606]

Get inside a plane board or use a 1" x 10" by 4 ft plank as a plane board. You might be supsrised how inside you have to come on the downswing to keep the shaft on plane. I like MJ's suggestion "Drill - Try to get the hosel past the ball before the clubface strikes it." Once learned you should be able to eliminate the hook and slice.

 

[MizunoJoe]

ryan,

Yes, more toe up. Most swingers use standard wrist action, which turns the left wrist on the BS, and rolls it on the DS.

 

[ukhacker]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

ryan,

Yes, more toe up. Most swingers use standard wrist action, which turns the left wrist on the BS, and rolls it on the DS.

MizunoJoe, with respect this is where I get lost. I find it a hell of a lot easier getting the club face square at impact if I get the face more parallel to my spine and less toe up. Doesn't the swingers standard wrist with this turning and rolling of the left wrist make it harder to get the face square at impact - I know I find it harder.

Does the standard wrist action of the swinger mean that he or she has to use horizontal hinging seeing that the face is coming into the ball "more open", and the horizontal hinge action causes the closing action of the club face? If the swinger is using standard wrist action with horizontal hinging - how does he or she ensure that the hinge action is not applied "too early" and thus close the face too much and cause a pull hook?

Lastly - seeing that I have more success with having the face less toe up - would it be more likely that I am a hitter, and if not what other characteristics would indicate that I am a hitter?

Thanks

 

[MizunoJoe]

uk,

In this last post, you twice mentiom "squaring the clubface at impact".
If you intend to hit the inside of the ball, you CANNOT square the clubface at impact - it must be OPEN(about 3 degrees) and in the process of closing. This is why the club must be more toe up on the BS/DS.

Swingers almost always use standard wrist action and horizontal hinging. The correct timing of the turning and rolling of the left arm is an issue, but not nearly as difficult in practice as it seems "on paper". You just have to learn to trust your alignments and centrifugal force.

Hitters use an active right arm thrust while Swingers use centrifugal force. In your initial post, you said that you were leading with the right elbow and doing very little with the clubface and that you were turning(rolling) your left arm through impact, which suggests swinging/horizontal hinging. You also said it was easy to fade the ball, which could imply hitting with angled hinging, which, unless compensated, produces fades. And then, in this last post, you all but said that you were using angled hinging. It could be that you are mixing Swinging and Hitting components, which is not advisable.

So the real issue here is whether you are a Swinger or Hitter now, and which you wish to be. Perhaps there is an AI(Authorized TGM Instructor) you could see in the UK(I'm assuming from your name)?

 

[ukhacker]

Thanks for taking the time to reply MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

uk,

In this last post, you twice mentiom "squaring the clubface at impact".
If you intend to hit the inside of the ball, you CANNOT square the clubface at impact - it must be OPEN(about 3 degrees) and in the process of closing. This is why the club must be more toe up on the BS/DS.

Does this apply to hitting and swinging? Particularly the bit about the toe being more toe up?

quote:

Swingers almost always use standard wrist action and horizontal hinging. The correct timing of the turning and rolling of the left arm is an issue, but not nearly as difficult in practice as it seems "on paper". You just have to learn to trust your alignments and centrifugal force.

But I am thinking maybe hitting is easier - just a thought.

quote:

Hitters use an active right arm thrust while Swingers use centrifugal force. In your initial post, you said that you were leading with the right elbow and doing very little with the clubface and that you were turning(rolling) your left arm through impact, which suggests swinging/horizontal hinging.

Yes I think this may be why I was hitting the pull hooks.

quote:


You also said it was easy to fade the ball, which could imply hitting with angled hinging, which, unless compensated, produces fades. And then, in this last post, you all but said that you were using angled hinging. It could be that you are mixing Swinging and Hitting components, which is not advisable.

Yes I think this is the real issue - mixing components.

quote:

So the real issue here is whether you are a Swinger or Hitter now, and which you wish to be. Perhaps there is an AI(Authorized TGM Instructor) you could see in the UK(I'm assuming from your name)?

Unfortunately there is not a single AI in the UK. So my only exposure to TGM is through the internet and learning through sites like this.

I think I have a reasonable grasp of the basic terms of TGM - where I am struggling is putting all the components together - maybe you could help?

I prefer using single left wrist action, which seems to me that I have less "club face issues" at impact. So therefore I guess I would like to be a hitter! But at the same time it does feel like I drag the club down plane from the top, but then at release point it feels like I have to straighten by right arm like mad into the follow-through! So yes I am a tad confused.

Another thing that has got me confused - I am not sure if you have seen Brian's never slice again video (or even his slice article) but he says to get the face more toe down and then swivel like made into impact and then the follow through. I know that this is entirely aimed at slices but surely if the golfer literally does what he is suggesting would lead to pull hook city?

Lastly - if I want to be a hitter (which I think I do), is it possible to hit a draw? If so - what components are needed for a hitter to hit a draw consistently?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[wally888]

UKH said
"I prefer using single left wrist action, which seems to me that I have less "club face issues" at impact. So therefore I guess I would like to be a hitter! But at the same time it does feel like I drag the club down plane from the top, but then at release point it feels like I have to straighten by right arm like mad into the follow-through! So yes I am a tad confused."
Question to the knowing?
If UKH used an aid , swing fan, or something similar, would his questions be answered/resolved?

 

[MizunoJoe]

If you have the book, you can follow the basic Hitting pattern 12-1 and the instructions to avoid customizing until the expert stage is reached. This will eliminate mixing Swinging and Hitting components. Doing this on your own is rewarding but can be a long process. Maybe Brian does video lessons by tape?

Brian's Anti-slice Article doesn't necessarily lead to pull hooking. By bending the right wrist back enough, you get an arched left wrist which opens the clubface and facilitates contact with the inside of the ball. If the you hit the inside of the ball, you cannot hit a pull hook with ANY amount of left arm roll.

The geometry of the Hit and Swing are the same, but the physics differs. So theoretically, any shot shape is possible with either. However in practical terms, Hitting and it's usual angled hinging with built in clubface layback, tends toward fading, unless compensated. Two compensations are ball position and clubface closing at address. By moving the ball back in the stance, you can draw the ball. However, closing the clubface preempts a draw, because the inside of the ball can't be struck, so to move the ball from right to left, you must line up right of the target and pull hook it.