Has anyone ever seen the Trackman data for a shank?

[GeoffDickson]

I know there will be no absolutes, but...What is the horizontal and vertical launch angles for a shank?

Horizontally, what percentage would be greater than 45*?
Assuming the same club, I would expect a shank to have less vertical launch angle compared to a well hit shot

Has anyone ever seen the Trackman data for a shank?

 

[Frans@France]

Yes, I did.

h. launch angle is all over the place, however don't forget that as soon as it gets to big then there is a possibility that the ball will ricochet on the face and the final hla is then smaller then expected like 0 degree Depends on the offset as well. 45* I can't remember. I will go thru some data and report back

v. launch angles I even recorded negative values and max. values around 20*

 

[Frans@France]

Just had a look. The negative values are for the Dync. Loft.

30* is the max I could find for the HLA most is much smaller more like 16-20
VLA on average around 10* but sometimes as big as expected for that club. Could be the ball got back on the face.

 

[art]

I know there will be no absolutes, but...What is the horizontal and vertical launch angles for a shank?

Horizontally, what percentage would be greater than 45*?
Assuming the same club, I would expect a shank to have less vertical launch angle compared to a well hit shot

Has anyone ever seen the Trackman data for a shank?

Dear Goeff,

Nice to see you posting, and hope all is going well.

I have had some experiences with the dreaded shank, but not with access to Trackman or FlightScope.

I however, have spent time 'thinking' about it and my admittedly non scientific conclusion will startle you and others I am sure. My hope is to receive some factual evidence allowing me to change my mind, if necessary.

Here it is: I do NOT believe that shanks are the result of hitting the ball with the 'hosel' of the club. IMO, the ball may 'touch' the hosel, but the compression takes place from the WIDE OPEN CLUB FACE , not the hosel.

Here is the limit of my 'scientific' evidence. For a right handed golfer, I have NEVER seen the 'shank' go left, yet if it were a 'hosel-only inaccurate swing and hit, by statistics alone, there should be leftward shanks at least part of the time since the hosel is less than half the diameter of the ball, certainly in the range of the swing uncertainty.

Actually, there is much more 'scientific' evidence I am going by, because when I experience the dreaded shank, I simply address the next shot knowing that the reduced swing length of this less than full power shot simply resulted in my not 'closing the face' fast enough IMO, the REAL cause of every shank.

Best regards,
art

 

[Frans@France]

Here it is: I do NOT believe that shanks are the result of hitting the ball with the 'hosel' of the club. IMO, the ball may 'touch' the hosel, but the compression takes place from the WIDE OPEN CLUB FACE , not the hosel.

could you explain the "compression takes place from the wide open club face" ? You hit the ball with the hosel so that's where the compression comes from?

Here is the limit of my 'scientific' evidence. For a right handed golfer, I have NEVER seen the 'shank' go left, yet if it were a 'hosel-only inaccurate swing and hit, by statistics alone, there should be leftward shanks at least part of the time since the hosel is less than half the diameter of the ball, certainly in the range of the swing uncertainty.

I have shanks going left, no problem! However it's not the size of the hosel that is important, it's the fact that the left hand part of the hosel is significantly more away from the sweetspot and therefore there is less chance(?) hitting that part of the hosel.

Scientific evidence to support this would be to measure the distance (from the sweetsport) distribution on shanks.

 

[Virtuoso]

Oh art, you haven't lived until you've seen a dead left reverse hosel shank! I've seen quite few; they are delicious. It almost hits them in the left ankle.

 

[johnnymarlboro]

Not a teacher, but I have also seen them go dead left. A buddy of mine last season had a spell of the lateral fades both directions accompanied with a near whiff top where he was some how managing to hit the sole of the club on the very top of the ball causing it to hop forwards and roll a few feet. It looks like some sort of bizarre trick shot, and it's proof that topspin really does exist in golf! He had a particularly bad stretch of holes that ended in extremely loud profanity, a wedge broken Bo Jackson style, and some terrified elderly folks the next hole over. He plays alot more softball then golf now.

 

[GeoffDickson]

I think I have design for the nets that will keep everything and everybody safe from the occassional shank, no matter what its cause and what part of the club is responsible for the shank.

 

[art]

could you explain the "compression takes place from the wide open club face" ? You hit the ball with the hosel so that's where the compression comes from?



I have shanks going left, no problem! However it's not the size of the hosel that is important, it's the fact that the left hand part of the hosel is significantly more away from the sweetspot and therefore there is less chance(?) hitting that part of the hosel.

Scientific evidence to support this would be to measure the distance (from the sweetsport) distribution on shanks.

Dear Frans@France,

The transition and contour from the hosel to the club face for 'true' irons and wedges, not hybrids, varies considerably by Company design, and by club number. So all I did with my 'Pings' was to place a ball on the face, and move it towards the hosel for the sand wedge and 9 iron, my probable shank-ing clubs.

For those and a few other friends clubs I have looked at, due to the differences in curvature of the hosel-to-face transition and the ball, there were instances where the club was in contact with the ball in 2 places at the same time, making the resultant horizontal launch angle impossible to predict, AND the 'compression' and forces on the ball coming from two 'single-point locations.

For a 'pure' shank, by my definition of NO contact with the hosel, but a severely OPEN club face, the compression I noted is just from a more complicated D Plane incident. And, as I noted in my original response, IMO, the true cause is the golfers inability to adjust the club face ROC to the severely reduced swing velocity.

My admittedly non scientific 'proof positive' is the fact that some extreme club designs I have seen on the driving range with NO hosel to club face intersection still produce the dreaded severe horizontal launch angle, in some cases for 10-20 consecutive swings.

As to your comment about the increased distance to the club face center from the hosel, I agree completely, BUT would expect just a proportionately reduced number of 'leftward' direction shanks compared to the standard, and that is not my experience.

Finally, with all the videos that posters on this site have taken, could you or someone else please post (or look at and report) the results of a few shanks so we all can see where the ball contacts the club (hosel and/or face), but IMO, the consistently wide open face at contact?

Thanks for the questions,
art

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

art your definition of a 'pure shank' is incorrect, a shank hits off the hosel at some point; it could be a combination of hosel and face but it does hit the hosel. You can see the mark on the hosel.

Also lagging the hosel and/or extremely open clubfaces can create shanks but so can horrible hand path and actually an extremely closed face too.