Help with long irons

[timm]

I’ve been hitting the ball solidly with my short to mid irons using Ben Doyle’s hand location. I get into impact fix to see where I need my hands to be and then I make my swing trying to return my hands to that spot a feeling the they snap at the last possible second. My problem is with my longer irons 5, 4, 3 not hitting as well. How much forward lean shaft do I need and should my hands return to the same spot as the short and mid irons or should they me further forward or back. I use my left foot as the place I return my hands for the mid to short irons. I’ve tried to do aiming point but when I do that it just doesn’t work for me. Any help would be appreciated.

Timm

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Hands end up in the same place but the stance is wider and the ball is closer to low point. So there is not as much foward lean.

 

[Burner]

I’ve been hitting the ball solidly with my short to mid irons using Ben Doyle’s hand location. I get into impact fix to see where I need my hands to be and then I make my swing trying to return my hands to that spot a feeling the they snap at the last possible second. My problem is with my longer irons 5, 4, 3 not hitting as well. How much forward lean shaft do I need and should my hands return to the same spot as the short and mid irons or should they me further forward or back. I use my left foot as the place I return my hands for the mid to short irons. I’ve tried to do aiming point but when I do that it just doesn’t work for me. Any help would be appreciated.

Timm

Timm,

Hope "snap" is not being confused with "flip". The "snap" would come about as a result of the right arm, not wrist, straightening through impact which, in turn, uncocks the left wrist. The "flip" is the straightening of the right wrist and forward bending of the left - not good!

Hands at impact do not correspond to where the hands were at address, unless you start from impact fix - which is not altogether a bad thing.

Your hands at impact will be further forward of the clubhead the shorter the iron you are using. To get an idea of this concept just sole your clubs, say a 5i and a wedge along side each other and see how much more forward lean you have on the wedge than the 5i. This is an integral part of club design.

This forward lean from the correctly soled club will then help you to place the ball accurately in your set up. The more forward the lean, the further back the ball position at set up.

As a guide, sole the club, take your grip with your hands just inside your target side thigh and place the ball where the clubhead is. With a wedge this will be directly under your crutch, or thereabouts, and the ball will need to be moved progressively further forward as you move up through the longer irons.

 

[timm]

Burner,

Thanks for the advice before I start my swing I always do impact fix to see where I want my hands to be at impact. Yes it’s not the same as address something I wish some one would have told me a long time ago. I have video taped my swing and I don’t flip at the ball. As soon as my hands get to the impact hands position then I allow the right arm to start full extending while keeping the right wrist bent. It fells like a snap release but it may just feel like that to me. I use my hands to control my pivot as in I put the brains in the hands and the body knows what it has to do for the hands to get there. If I try in any way to interfere with the motion before by hands reach impact hands its bad shots. Just after impact I go into the Ben Doyle (Manzella Ring up) to real drive the ball into the ground. Thanks for telling me to compare the 5 iron to the wedge because that maybe the problem with the longer irons I try to lean them just as far or further then a PW.

Timm

 

[Brian Manzella]

Long Irons.

Require a WIDER STANCE to allow for more axis tilt.

Also, try for slight forward lean.

KEEP YOUR HEAD BACK, and unwind those hips!

 

[Little Brit]

On a slightly different tangent. My local clubmaker has a very strong opinion that the reason people often have trouble with the long irons is that they are usually too soft a shaft for them. He makes all his clubs in a set at the same frequency and moi, so that each club feels the same. I know that he is very highly respected around here. Has anyone else encountered this?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

You can't make every shaft frequency the same number, you should have a nice even slope.

If you had a 298cpm 3 iron and a 298cpm PW that PW would be one soft PW

 

[Little Brit]

You can't make every shaft frequency the same number, you should have a nice even slope.

If you had a 298cpm 3 iron and a 298cpm PW that PW would be one soft PW

Well I can assure you that, that is exactly what he does. Some very good players here swear by it. Actually I think it would be the other way round, as the shaft gets shorter it gets stiffer, which is probably better for the wedges, but I could be totally wrong. Each club ends up feeling the same.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Jimmy, WHAT?

You know better...

geez.


Surely you can have this, I played with Swing-Syncs for years.

Matched FREQ and MOI.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Well I can assure you that, that is exactly what he does. Some very good players here swear by it. Actually I think it would be the other way round, as the shaft gets shorter it gets stiffer, which is probably better for the wedges, but I could be totally wrong. Each club ends up feeling the same.

If the club is getting shorter and stiffer than the club will CPM higher. It will be the same "flex" as the 3 iron but the CPM will be higher because it is shorter and the shaft has to be stiffer to be in the same flex range.

This is opposite of what you say above when you said each club has the same CPM

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

You know better...

geez.


Surely you can have this, I played with Swing-Syncs for years.

Matched FREQ and MOI.

I know you can have this, i just believe it's junk.

You find the CPM range that you hit the best and you slope the remaining clubs around it.

 

[jbm47]

Help with 5I-4I-3I

I have the same problem. I can hit every club in my bag except for those clubs. Here's what I have been working on at the Range. I get into my set-up square/ square to target, Then I draw my right foot back alittle 1/2 inch to 1 inch , close the face of the club alittle 1/4 of inch. Focus on the hand impact location and my eyes inside the aft part of the ball. I was hitting sold shots with a draw. Try it. It's helping me. I still need to put it into my coconut. I do this because I was told that those clubs take longer to line up. Just a discovery process in some of MY swing thoughts! It working for me! I thoght I would share this with you.

JBM47

 

[palmreader]

HK Says so.....(I Beleive)

JBM47,

I beleive HK says in TGM that you should close the club face little more for longer iron than for shorter iron. TGM experts, please chime in without trying to kill me, if I am wrong.

 

[jbm47]

help with long Irons

I believe your right! I heard it form an AI in So.Cal he told me that. You know when your working with an instructor they give you so much information. Your head swims. This came to my coconut in a practice session the other night. I was hitting the ball terrible and I just put it together that night.

Palmreader,
I am not like the other basher here on this forurm. Just want to help if some ask, Also, If, I have the information to give. I feel your pain!

JBM47

 

[palmreader]

Long Irons

Thanks JBM, I love this forum, there are really good guys, and Burner is very good.

For long irons, I set up with slightly closed club face, and use Brian's twistaway during back swing and hold the twistaway in to impact. It works well.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

JBM47,

I beleive HK says in TGM that you should close the club face little more for longer iron than for shorter iron. TGM experts, please chime in without trying to kill me, if I am wrong.

For hitters that use angled hinging to counteract the laying back of the face of angled hinging.