"His findings are his findings"

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Brian Manzella

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tbyeaton0627

Brian is a brilliant instructor but his findings are his findings and not necessarily accepted by TGM community, as a TGM'er I disagree with some of what Brian believes, so I think it would fair to say he just does it a different way.

I bought my first Golfing Machine book in 1982 because I wanted to learn from it. I did.

When I stopped learning from it on my own five years later, I went to see Ben Doyle. That was 20 years ago. I went to learn from him, and to learn more from the book. I did. Me and Ben are very close, and he just did a Manzella Acadmey School with him and Michael Jacobs. another G.S.E.D. and great friend on Long Island.

I continued to research and learn from the book—and the not so secret audio tapes—until I exhausted the “inventory” of information in it.

I read everything I can get my hands on. I research every day. I self evaluate my lessons and my work every single day. I go to every seminar and summit that are worth attending, and many that aren’t.

I want to be the very best, and if I am not there, I am getting closer everyday.

When someone says, “His findings are his findings,” is that supposed to mean my findings are lesser findings than someone else’s?

Homer Kelley was a brilliant man, and it took him 28 years to write the first edition of The Golfing Machine, thirteen more to write the 6th edition. He did a great service for golf, uncovering and naming all sorts of things that were either unknown or under-promoted. He systematized the swing in way that makes anything that came before it seem like a kindergarten project. The three imperatives alone are priceless.

Homer was not an engineer, nor a mathematician or physicist. He certainly was not a golf teacher by trade, and wasn't the greatest writer of the 20th century by any means. He didn’t own a high-speed camera, 3D system, or any of the multitudes of measurement devices available today. Yet, there are some that think he was infallible, and that every word in the book is gospel.

They are obviously very wrong.

Dr. Aaron Zick, who spoke at the last TGM Summit, was asked about the validity of a simple concept from the book from a scientific standpoint. His response was “You guys (the book’s followers) have bigger problems than that.”

He wasn’t talking about book binding problems or typos.

Robert Grober said there was a "mistake" on every page.

Having said that, The Golfing Machine is what it is—the best golf swing information source available currently in Golf.

I highly recommend anyone who teaches golf to become an Authorized Instructor, and attend the Summits.

Worth every penny and then some.

I am certainly no Dr. Zick or Dr. Grober, but I made a 131 on an IQ test and 41 on the Wonderlic, so I ain't no dummy either.

My “findings” are usually something that started with an idea of mine, cross-referenced with what is in the book or being taught elsewhere. I test it on myself, use it on my students, and research it to death. If I get lucky an Aaron Zick or a "Mandrin" or a Robert Grober will chime in with the science, either on my forum or somewhere else. High-Speed video or stills, or 3D are always sought out for back-up. The big equipment companies are a wealth of information when they share it from time to time.

For example, my preference for using the “twistaway” and the visually neutral grip for help cure chronic slicers—I didn’t just dream that up, it took 20+ years on the lesson tee to figure out the “Never Slice Again” pattern. It is something that Math can’t prove or disprove. It isn’t “in” the book, per se. But, I have the proof that it works, and I am willing to show up anywhere in front of my peers to demonstrate that it does work better that what is often used in pop instruction and by some AI’s.

“His findings are his findings”?

I suggest that the young man needs to come watch me teach for week and report back.

Now as for the “not necessarily accepted by the TGM community” comment, which TGM community is he referring to? He should have been at the last TGM summit. It would have been very eye opening.

But, let me say this, whatever any AI wants to teach is fine with me. I used to worry about it, because I like people to be accurate and things to be fair. Those days are over.

Let them teach whatever they want, and if they want to say it is the holy truth, God bless ‘em.

I teach what I teach for one reason and one reason only—results. When I can get better results with something else, I change instantly and let everyone know it.

The “truth” is that you either swing too far to the left or to the right, or your swing is on the right line for you. You either have the clubface too open or too closed, or it is just fine for you. The bottom of the swing is either too far forward, too far back or perfect for your desired result. The angle of attack is too steep, too shallow or perfect for your pattern. And, the Pivot is strictly for positioning those factors and generating speed.

All of the rest of it, Jimmy Ballard’s common denominators, Jim Hardy’s one plane pattern, Haney’s rotate the arms and have the club move in parallel planes, Harmon’s shortened backswings and wide downswings, Stack and Tilt, etc, ARE JUST THE MEANS for the above “truth” of what makes the ball go from point A to point B.

The rest is just marketing.

My "Manzella Matrix" is just a super understandable classification system of real-world patterns and solutions, and a philosophy of how to use it. It is not meant as a Golfing Machine replacement or TGM-lite. It is "my findings" and for all the research some teachers say they do, they haven't out thought and out-tested me in the last 25 years.

The beauty of what I do for a living—teach folks to play golf—is that I am my own boss. I don't have to listen to what the PGA says is correct, and I don't have to use the the Golfing Machine as a how-to manual. To me it is a tool, a great tool, but I teach to help my students play their best, whether it is a David Toms or a adult beginneer class. I do not teach to be accepted by any group.

I do like the “brilliant instructor” part, though. ;)
 
you convey information the way it should be, not trying to sell things and make your quick million you have a true passion to help golfers and we can see that
 

KOC

New
Dear Brian,

Would you please name a few of those "mistake" for us and is there any possibility to rectify them with the 8th edition? Sound like a crazy question and idea...but i mean that...the perfect golfing machine.
 
errors

koc,

i started a thread on july 30th., but i am still waiting for a reply,. perhaps you will
have better luck!

regards,
jimmy
 
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Leek

New
What I've observed in person, is that Brian works with "what you have" to devlop a pattern that allows his student to execute the imperatives and get results quickly. There is no system in play at all. I make an assumption that there is a somewhat standard application of knowledge depending on where the student lies in the matrix.

My results from working with Brian are simply amazing to me.

In the end, isn't golf instruction about meeting or exceeding the students' expectations through results?
 

Michael Jacobs

Super Moderator
Interesting Findings:


I had the interesting opportunity of studying the Golfing Machine and golf teaching systems right from the very start while I was a PGM student in North Carolina. I had an excellent Job each summer which afforded me the opportunity for a very generous budget to spend on research. I graduated college $3,000 in debt. Spent over $25,000 "on the road" for 4 years - I stopped playing golf (tournament Golf) and sought out to find a better way than what was out there. The journey took me to many states , many top 50 teachers, and many books in the library. I realized quickly that The Golfing Machine was the most important book of our time. Spent 4 years disceting every word, every punctuation, had the aid of 2 PHD's in physics, had access to testing materials -- Had the audios, had all the tapes of Homer...... so on and so forth........ All those who come to take a lesson and have quotes and phrases that they bring to my attention to fit into my cirriculum - well all I can say is that I am one step ahead of you! Created a notebook for my own interpreation --- Built my own Golf School right out of college and currently run and operate one of Long Islands Best. 28 years old, I have a long way to go (hopefully) ---------- Met Brian Manzella at the 2005 PGA Show at Demo Day. We were walking around with Ben shooting the breeze. Ran into Brian again at The Golfing Machine summit -- Became friendly with him participated on his site and had some phone chats --- Invited him out to do a golf school together. Well, I had never seen Brian teach - he had never seen me teach .......... We did a golf school that might be the most successful in Academy history - students could not believe that we had never taught together before....... The instruction paralled perfectly - Obviuosly we have completely different delivery styles and communication styles but It is NO coincindence that we came from different backgrounds and different times developed an almost identical "APPROACH" .... WHY? because we looked beyond what someone told us, we looked beyond what was on the page, we looked beyond the industry standard -- an WE STILL DO!
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Hey Coach!

That is what I would like to know....what TGM community? The one ran by The Golfing Machine LLC?

No, not the LLC, not the guys at the Summit, but, the point is is that it doesn't matter.

I teach what I teach because it works.

As far as providing a "List" of errors in the book...or getting the book PERFECT for the 8th edition...there was talk about that at the summit and after the summit, but, I think the book will stand as written for a while.

For instance, the consensus at the Sumitt was to include several more patterns in the back of the book. That will not be done as far as I know. Not that a consensus is a good way to do anything.

I think, that just leaving the book as is, is fine. If anyone has anything to add, or subtract, or any different way to explain the truth of golf—they are free to do it.

My Manzella Matrix or some of the other systems that have been developed by AI's and ex-AI's are out there, and will continue to be.
 
Great stuff, as usual Brian. Results are the bottom line and, with every student posing different tendencies and challenges, a great teacher has to have a myriad of ways to "skin a cat". Like you, I strive to better my knowledge and understanding of the golf swing and its many complexities on a daily basis. But no matter how much information I have, it is absolutely useless if I cannot communicate it in a meaningful way to each individual. Everyone has a different learning style and skill level. A great teacher understands this and arms him or herself with the information and experience that helps them adapt accordingly to to situation at hand. To that end, your site has been an invaluable resource to me and the many people I have referred to it. Thank-you and keep up the good work....your "findings" work just fine for me...to find something, one must search...the great ones' continue searching long after "it" has been found. Wouldn't it be nice and convenient if there was an "it" in golf instruction!
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Brian,

I was being facetious. I could care less about any "TGM community". LLC or otherwise. The only thing that matters to me are results, and you get them....... Now that is a community I'm proud to be part of.....the "Manzella made this dude better" community
 
Out of curiosity, have either of you two ever NOT had a success but still believed in what you were doing.. then became successful later with it?
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Success, Money, and Fame.

Out of curiosity, have either of you two ever NOT had a success but still believed in what you were doing.. then became successful later with it?

I started teaching in 1982, by 1985, I was a very good teacher by any measure.

I knew I was better than the other guys in the area, and they knew it too.

I still don't think I am a success, and I sure don't make "troubleshooter" money.

But you HAVE TO believe...or go sell Allstate.
 
I for one have to be very careful with how much TGM I degest. I read the book, then went from a 2 handicap to a 10 handicap within six months. I struggled with the concept of what really closes the clubface...the hands and arms, or the body pivot. Thankfully, Brian was able to screw my head back on correctly and then explain how to wallop the ball with your pivot. To be honest, I haven't touched the yellow book in almost six months as my 2MB brain can't handle it :). Thankfully, we have folks like Brian, Jim, and Michael who can explain the concepts in various ways.
 
I have the video it is very very good. Only jesting with you Mike i have the same problem i am 34 people think i am late forties. Can't blame the sun either as i live in u.k.
 
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