Hitting the driver

[Iowagolfpr]

Brain - Congratulations on a great site. Any way you look at it, this is by far the best G.O.L.F. forum.
In the Jan. issue of Golf Digest, there is an article that makes some suggestions about teeing the ball for the driver. The article shows the ball teed high and suggests that the logo be place at the equator of the ball. Then, it is recommends that the golfer keep his eye on the logo, so the proper spine tilt will be maintained. Also, it recommends that the golfer hit up on the logo. I have noticed that all of the longer drivers at the Remax world championship teed the ball very high. They also leave the tee in the ground after the ball is hit. Leaving the tee in the ground suggests they are hitting up on the ball. I help one the the top Remax long drivers. He feels that he has a slightly forward shaft tilt at impact. He also feels that he is hitting slightly up on the ball. I have discussed teeing the ball with a number of other long drivers and they tell me the same thing. Hank Keune recommended in Golf Digest that golfers contact the ball on the upswing. The data for that article said that he contacted the ball on a 2.5 degree upward path. What suggestions do you have for teeing the ball and the swing path for the driver?

 

[wanole]

this is a good question.

I have seen on the tv that when they show the superslow mo of the drivers that they hit the ball off the upper part of the driver face. If they truely have their hands in front of the ball I would think it would be kind of hard to hit the ball on the up swing that way.
What is the point of the loft of the club if you swing up?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Iowa,

Thank you very much.

It is the shafts. They bend forward. With the REMAX guys (i teach one too) they use very stiff shafts that bend FORWARD a bunch.

The grip end IS leaning forward, though...thank God.

 

[Bigwill]

Brian,out of curiosity, what longdriver are you working with, and what are you working on? I just got into longdrive last year, so again, I'm curious.

 

[horton]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Iowa,

Thank you very much.

It is the shafts. They bend forward. With the REMAX guys (i teach one too) they use very stiff shafts that bend FORWARD a bunch.

The grip end IS leaning forward, though...thank God.

So just by visual examination, you are able to deduce that the clubhead is on a downward path, just because you perceive</u> that he grip end is leaning forward?

Come now Brian, how can you subjectively determine what the clubhead is doing during the 0.4 ms of Impact to Separation just by eyeballing the club grip? That's not very scientific of you buddy.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Hey horton,

You don't read too well for a guy that claims to read a lot.

Read it again and post again.

 

[6bee1dee]

Educated Hands that go to an Aiming Point puts the hands ahead of clubhead. Lag is having hands ahead of the clubhead and lag is the name of the game, Horton. It doesn't take a genius or a swift lawyer to deduct that if the hands reach their aiming point, a location past the ball (yes I drive my hands straight to this point- hard) ahead of the clubhead - the the hands are forward and the clubhead lags behind.

Do you have a bad case of clubhead throw-away, Horton? Jack K did or still does. Do you want to talk about some swing mechanics?

One last point, if your swing mechanics are specfic to your SA swing- it may not be relative to our swing. We are a step or three ahead of the mechanics of Natural Golf. Horton please answer this question- I have answered yours - What swing method do you use?

I will hear from my freinds tomorrow - I many have a paying job for you.

Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by Iowagolfpr

In the Jan. issue of Golf Digest, there is an article that makes some suggestions about teeing the ball for the driver. The article shows the ball teed high and suggests that the logo be place at the equator of the ball. Then, it is recommends that the golfer keep his eye on the logo, so the proper spine tilt will be maintained. Also, it recommends that the golfer hit up on the logo. I have noticed that all of the longer drivers at the Remax world championship teed the ball very high. They also leave the tee in the ground after the ball is hit. Leaving the tee in the ground suggests they are hitting up on the ball. I help one the the top Remax long drivers. He feels that he has a slightly forward shaft tilt at impact. He also feels that he is hitting slightly up on the ball. I have discussed teeing the ball with a number of other long drivers and they tell me the same thing. Hank Keune recommended in Golf Digest that golfers contact the ball on the upswing. The data for that article said that he contacted the ball on a 2.5 degree upward path. What suggestions do you have for teeing the ball and the swing path for the driver?

The Golf Stroke is Geometric. It has an Inclined Plane of Motion and it has a Low Point (opposite the Left Shoulder). It also has a Radius (the Left Arm and Club). If the Ball is postioned behind Low Point (Up Plane), then the Club must proceed Downward (and Outward) through Impact to the Low Point. Or else...

Destroy the Radius and disrupt the true orbit of the Club.

And with it the Maximum Compression of the Three-Dimensional Impact (Downward, Outward and Forward).

In other words, to 'hit up' prior to Low Point...

You must Bend the Flat Left Wrist and Flatten the Bent Right Wrist.

Said another way...You must Throw the Club.

And when you Throw the Club...

You no longer Drive the Club...

And when you no longer Drive the Club...

You are at its mercy.

To reclaim 'Who's Boss!' and still 'hit up'...

Position the Ball forward of Low Point (the Left Shoulder). This will require a slightly higher Tee than normal (simply because the Clubhead is now on its way up).

Then Drive through the Low Point and through the Impact Point to Both Arms Straight.

The Ball will have less Backspin...

And, accordingly, less control...

but...

It will go further.

And without the loss of Control implicit in the procedures thus far recommended.

 

[dclaryjr]

quote:Originally posted by holenone
Position the Ball forward of Low Point (the Left Shoulder). This will require a slightly higher Tee than normal (simply because the Clubhead is now on its way up).

Then Drive through the Low Point and through the Impact Point to Both Arms Straight.

The Ball will have less Backspin...

And, accordingly, less control...

but...

It will go further.

And without the loss of Control implicit in the procedures thus far recommended.

I play on a rather short course so distance is not a concern--landing in the short grass is. So should I be placing the ball up plane from low point and sticking that 3-inch tee a little further in the ground?

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by dclaryjr

quote:Originally posted by holenone
Position the Ball forward of Low Point (the Left Shoulder). This will require a slightly higher Tee than normal (simply because the Clubhead is now on its way up).

Then Drive through the Low Point and through the Impact Point to Both Arms Straight.

The Ball will have less Backspin...

And, accordingly, less control...

but...

It will go further.

And without the loss of Control implicit in the procedures thus far recommended.

I play on a rather short course so distance is not a concern--landing in the short grass is. So should I be placing the ball up plane from low point and sticking that 3-inch tee a little further in the ground?

[Bold by Yoda.]

Red Tees and Lower Tees work for me!

 

[Iowagolfpr]

Moe Norman was probably the straighest driver of the golf who ever lived. He used the same tee for seven years. He said, "I hit golf balls not tees." You can't use the same tee for seven years and hit down on the ball. He at one time used a golf pencil as a tee because he liked to tee the ball high. So the straighest driver of the ball teed the ball high and the longest drivers tee the ball high. The force can been downward and outward and yet the clubhead can travel upward.
Also, as Brain stated the shaft bends.
Tee it high and let it fly! Air is less resistant than grass. Even when hitting into the wind I don't tee the ball much lower or move the ball back in my stance a lot. To hit it lower, I "chase" the ball and follow it by making sure I drive my right shoulder thru the ball on it's plane line. I also try to really get extra good extension of the right forearm when trying to hit the ball lower.

Hitting down too much causes excess spin. Having the correct spin rate is very important to good driving. Modern clubs have a lot deeper faces and the sweet spot is usually just a little above the center of the face. Just because I tee the ball high doesn't mean that I don't tilt the shaft forward at impact, or that I don't keep a flat left wrist, or that I don't want an "around ward" force. Sam Snead noted that one golf swing isn't good for driving and hitting irons. He felt a persons swing will favor one or the other. On drives I set up with more reward spine tilt than on iron shots. I do that by "tucking under" a little when setting up for drives. I used to tee the ball lower and feel as if I were hitting down more on the ball. But, after hanging out with the Remax longer drivers I got educated. Lauch angle monitors don't lie. Clubs have changed and golf balls have changed.

quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by dclaryjr

quote:Originally posted by holenone
Position the Ball forward of Low Point (the Left Shoulder). This will require a slightly higher Tee than normal (simply because the Clubhead is now on its way up).

Then Drive through the Low Point and through the Impact Point to Both Arms Straight.

The Ball will have less Backspin...

And, accordingly, less control...

but...

It will go further.

And without the loss of Control implicit in the procedures thus far recommended.

I play on a rather short course so distance is not a concern--landing in the short grass is. So should I be placing the ball up plane from low point and sticking that 3-inch tee a little further in the ground?

[Bold by Yoda.]

Red Tees and Lower Tees work for me!

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by dclaryjr

quote:Originally posted by holenone
Position the Ball forward of Low Point (the Left Shoulder). This will require a slightly higher Tee than normal (simply because the Clubhead is now on its way up).

Then Drive through the Low Point and through the Impact Point to Both Arms Straight.

The Ball will have less Backspin...

And, accordingly, less control...

but...

It will go further.

And without the loss of Control implicit in the procedures thus far recommended.

I play on a rather short course so distance is not a concern--landing in the short grass is. So should I be placing the ball up plane from low point and sticking that 3-inch tee a little further in the ground?

[Bold by Yoda.]

quote: Originally posted by holenone


Red Tees and Lower Tees work for me!

quote:Originally posted by Iowagolfpr

Moe Norman was probably the straighest driver of the golf who ever lived. He used the same tee for seven years. He said, "I hit golf balls not tees." You can't use the same tee for seven years and hit down on the ball. He at one time used a golf pencil as a tee because he liked to tee the ball high. So the straighest driver of the ball teed the ball high and the longest drivers tee the ball high. The force can been downward and outward and yet the clubhead can travel upward. Also, as Brain stated the shaft bends.

Tee it high and let it fly! Air is less resistant than grass. Even when hitting into the wind I don't tee the ball much lower or move the ball back in my stance a lot. To hit it lower, I "chase" the ball and follow it by making sure I drive my right shoulder thru the ball on it's plane line. I also try to really get extra good extension of the right forearm when trying to hit the ball lower.

Hitting down too much causes excess spin. Having the correct spin rate is very important to good driving. Modern clubs have a lot deeper faces and the sweet spot is usually just a little above the center of the face. Just because I tee the ball high doesn't mean that I don't tilt the shaft forward at impact, or that I don't keep a flat left wrist, or that I don't want an "around ward" force. Sam Snead noted that one golf swing isn't good for driving and hitting irons. He felt a persons swing will favor one or the other. On drives I set up with more reward spine tilt than on iron shots. I do that by "tucking under" a little when setting up for drives. I used to tee the ball lower and feel as if I were hitting down more on the ball. But, after hanging out with the Remax longer drivers I got educated. Lauch angle monitors don't lie. Clubs have changed and golf balls have changed.

[Bold by Yoda.]

I have no problem with Moe. Or you. Or Sam. Or with Wood Swings versus Iron Swings. Leaning 'into it' (or leaning 'away from it' for that matter). Or with High Tees or Low Tees or whatever.

High Tee or Low Tee or No Tee, the Inclined Plane and the Geometry of the Circle that lays upon it does not change.

You may choose to change...

Tilt this way.

Or Lean that way.

But it does not.

Think about it.

P.S. Regarding The force can been downward and outward and yet the clubhead can travel upward, check out my 'Hitting Vs. Swinging Video clip that made the rounds a few weeks ago:

"Per 1-L-15, the Club starts Up-and-In after Low Point, but the Thrust continues Down Plane."