Hitting Up With a Driver, or Not....

[mjstrong]

GREAT STUFF, BrianM !!!! TrackMan is good science because good science measures and provides numbers that are irrefutable. Looking at Fundamental #1 - Maximizing Distance for a 90mph swing speed:

-5º AoA -- 129mph, 11.1º, 3690rpm, 191 yards
+5º AoA -- 132mph, 16.4º, 2630rpm, 214 yards!!

This data destroys anybody who advocates a descending AoA. It must have been a great revelation and redemption.

No it doesn't. What if a player hits more fairways, and/or has a more predictable miss with a decending AoA?

 

[SteveT]

No it doesn't. What if a player hits more fairways, and/or has a more predictable miss with a decending AoA?

Whatever works for you ... go with it, but don't use it or teach it for maximizing distance.

Now I must admit that I use a descending hit with my 5 and 7-woods with great results for control. I just brush the grass in front of the ball on the fairway. If I use them off a tee, I will attempt an ascending or level clubhead path.

 

[mjstrong]

Whatever works for you ... go with it, but don't use it or teach it for maximizing distance.

Of course not, that info is almost common knowledge to the masses, but one could still make an argument for both sides in terms of which would be more "effective" overall for different players.

Brian didn't try to change my negative AoA when he watched me hit drivers...

 

[birly-shirly]

Whatever works for you ... go with it, but don't use it or teach it for maximizing distance.

Now I must admit that I use a descending hit with my 5 and 7-woods with great results for control. I just brush the grass in front of the ball on the fairway. If I use them off a tee, I will attempt an ascending or level clubhead path.

SteveT - I'm sure I read somewhere that you're a tourpro within 160 yards but a bogey golfer from any further away.

So when you say you're hitting those woods "with great results" - is that from inside or outside 160 yards?

 

[SteveT]

SteveT - I'm sure I read somewhere that you're a tourpro within 160 yards but a bogey golfer from any further away.

So when you say you're hitting those woods "with great results" - is that from inside or outside 160 yards?

Hey, what's wrong with a hint of humility here ... okay, I get your humor ... good shot ...

Seriously though, my short game is sterling, but I get unstable outside of 160 yards and must decrease my swing speed to find consistency. The harder I swing, the worse I get..!!!

I'm tall, slim and excessively steep in my swing which does not make for optimal golf .. and no amount of science or training will change that built-in deficiency. Think Ivan Lendl - remember him? Overall, I am not a bogey golfer ... believe it.

 

[SteveT]

Of course not, that info is almost common knowledge to the masses, but one could still make an argument for both sides in terms of which would be more "effective" overall for different players.

Brian didn't try to change my negative AoA when he watched me hit drivers...

Just out of curiosity .... how much negative does your AoA go .. with the driver of course?

 

[birly-shirly]

Hey, what's wrong with a hint of humility here ... okay, I get your humor ... good shot ...

Seriously though, my short game is sterling, but I get unstable outside of 160 yards and must decrease my swing speed to find consistency. The harder I swing, the worse I get..!!!

I'm tall, slim and excessively steep in my swing which does not make for optimal golf .. and no amount of science or training will change that built-in deficiency. Think Ivan Lendl - remember him? Overall, I am not a bogey golfer ... believe it.

Lendl? I remember there was an argyle-patterned shirt named after him! Good golfer too, once he retired. Are you taller than Faldo? I don't think you should abandon hope yet...

 

[greenfree]

Hey, what's wrong with a hint of humility here ... okay, I get your humor ... good shot ...

Seriously though, my short game is sterling, but I get unstable outside of 160 yards and must decrease my swing speed to find consistency. The harder I swing, the worse I get..!!!

I'm tall, slim and excessively steep in my swing which does not make for optimal golf .. and no amount of science or training will change that built-in deficiency. Think Ivan Lendl - remember him? Overall, I am not a bogey golfer ... believe it.

I have the answer to your problem, you must swing easy with ladies clubs because of excess droop or go stiffer and get fat and make your swing more around your obese body with a stiffer action, oh yeah if that doesn't work take up bowling...lol. and yes i have tried it.

 

[mjstrong]

Now I must admit that I use a descending hit with my 5 and 7-woods with great results for control. I just brush the grass in front of the ball on the fairway. If I use them off a tee, I will attempt an ascending or level clubhead path.

Why not just tee the ball low enough that you can make the exact same swing as you would (since you're getting great results for control) when it's on the fairway ("descending hit")? Are you trying to hit the 7 wood further off the tee? Why not just hit a 5 wood, if that's the case. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just don't understand your approach yet.

 

[SteveT]

Why not just tee the ball low enough that you can make the exact same swing as you would (since you're getting great results for control) when it's on the fairway ("descending hit")? Are you trying to hit the 7 wood further off the tee? Why not just hit a 5 wood, if that's the case. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just don't understand your approach yet.

I get different ball trajectories when hitting FW's off the deck compared to off a tee .. and this makes for very different results. It's just my personal game.

 

[mjstrong]

Just out of curiosity .... how much negative does your AoA go .. with the driver of course?

If I remember correctly, between 2 and 3 degrees normally.

 

[SteveT]

If I remember correctly, between 2 and 3 degrees normally.

Why don't you just tee the ball up a tad forward in your stance and on a higher tee ... then try to hit it on a positive AoA ..??

 

[mjstrong]

Why don't you just tee the ball up a tad forward in your stance and on a higher tee ... then try to hit it on a positive AoA ..??

Because I would also have to shift my horizontal plane more to the right - this is the part that I struggle with.

 

[SteveT]

Because I would also have to shift my horizontal plane more to the right - this is the part that I struggle with.

Is it an anatomical body thing with you ... or is it your swing mechanics and style ... or both?

What do you look like per LAWs of the Golf Swing ??

 

[mjstrong]

Is it an anatomical body thing with you ... or is it your swing mechanics and style ... or both?

What do you look like per LAWs of the Golf Swing ??

I would fall into the Leverage category.

I have a flat looking swing, used to fight a hook (but never with the driver), and have a fairly neutral grip. What kind of aspect do you think might make it tough to make this adjustment?

I just think that, when the tournament's coming down to the wire, and I've got to hit fairways, I stick with what I know will happen. Maybe I just have never given myself enough adjust time to go from hitting down to up, or maybe I have to try hitting up on it in tournaments to be able to trust it enough...

 

[SteveT]

I would fall into the Leverage category.

I have a flat looking swing, used to fight a hook (but never with the driver), and have a fairly neutral grip. What kind of aspect do you think might make it tough to make this adjustment?

Hmmm ... what's your height, weight and body genotype ... because I initially thought you would be a Width player ... and maybe now you are a mix of Leverage and Width ... anyway ...

 

[mjstrong]

Hmmm ... what's your height, weight and body genotype ... because I initially thought you would be a Width player ... and maybe now you are a mix of Leverage and Width ... anyway ...

5'11". 175lbs. I also enjoy long walks on the beach and the smell of campfires...

 

[SteveT]

5'11". 175lbs. I also enjoy long walks on the beach and the smell of campfires...

Why golf to punish yourself .. when you can lounge on the beach with your honey ... or roast marshmallows ...??!!!

 

[Wilson!]

-5 isn't the AoA for a #5 iron or so? If I remember correctly, PGA average AoA for a PW is not far from -9º (and close to -1.5 for driver). If so, comparing values such as +5 to -5 with a driver isn't too useful. Let us know the numbers for -2 and +2.

 

[dbl]

Those were the numbers that Trackman presented in their October 2010 newletter for an example of maximizing distance with a given swing. And of course the case they presented was for a 90mph swing, not a tour swing. The picture showed a driver, but the text did not indicate exactly what club was being talked about.

Do you think the numbers might not be realistic? I have no real practical experience, but would have thought they picked some real ones, and showed what would maximize distance for that 90 mph swinger.