Hogan Audio Answer [big time EDIT]

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birdie_man

birdie_man

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I listened to it today again...can't find it on the site anymore.

Anyway...so I was listening to it today and, with my new-found info. from 'Confessions of a Former Flipper'...would you call Hogan a flipper?

[EDIT]Just realized that "flipping", I guess, refers to a loss of lag...definately not Hogan lol- pretty dumb thing to call Hogan a flipper. He just rotates the clubface open more on the backswing...I guess that's what I was referring to.

He kind of has a flip move, no? I'm no expert on Hogan or w/e but I know he does it differently than most people. He has figured out a way to make it work.

As Brian said he rotates his left arm more than a 1/4 turn (right?) so he can be aggressive.

Not knocking his swing...he hit it better than almost anyone- some would say the best.

I mean, there just seems to be no consensus on what he does- anything with Hogan seems to be examined with intense fascination but shrouded in some kind of mystery at the same time...it drives me nuts. And no one (that I've heard of) teaches Hogan's swing or explains what he actually does either. Why?

I'd like to know what he does just for curiosity's sake.
 
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Jimmy A.

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quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

I listened to it today again...can't find it on the site anymore.
Click to expand...

What is he talking about in the audio file? I'd love to hear anything Hogan had to say. :)
 
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Jimmy A.

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jadame@asn.net or ninerocket@gmail.com. I'm not sure if there is a cap on how large attachments can be on either account. I don't think so, but that's why I gave you two addresses just in case. :)

Thanks a lot! I just ordered the match between Hogan and Snead that's out on VHS. I really like watching his swing. The guy was a machine.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
You can't teach his swing because it was heavily compensated and he had a move that few can do. The only one i've ever seen that does that same move is sergio garcia and he does it naturally. No one taught him to do it.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Strange that they're both such good ballstrikers tho eh? With that difficult move I mean. I think a few years ago (pre-swing changes) Sergio was #1 in GIR or #1 in total driving or something...he might have even been #1 in both.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Leadbetter would do the following with Hogan.

More right knee flex at the top.

Stand the club up on the backswing, more cup in wrist at the top.

Wider downswing, higher right shoulder through impact.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Hey Brian...does Hogan turn his left arm more than 1/4? I'd really like to know the jist of his hand action and rotation.

I know his setup was different, especially that right hand grip, as you said.

I would really like to get an explaination as to how he performs that swing. I just want a better understanding of how one of the greatest of all time did it- he did it differently. Just to satisfy my curiosity...c'mon man. :D
 
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EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

You can't teach his swing because it was heavily compensated and he had a move that few can do. The only one i've ever seen that does that same move is sergio garcia and he does it naturally. No one taught him to do it.
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Hey Brian, what ever happened to the pics of David Alford's swing he sent you to post? He does Hogan's moves quite well.
 
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David Alford

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When you say my swing didn't download properly, I wish you would clarify you meant the images didn't download properly which is a computer problem.
 
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David Alford

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With regard to a computer gliche - perhaps. But I sent you individual .jpegs. About ten of them, one per email; ten separate emails. They all didn't download?

The truth is you replied you had received them and that you
would soon post them. You never replied back to me "hey Dave, I'm having a problem downloading the pics".

So what happened? You didn't want the pics to be posted after you saw them. Why? Well, they were either damn good or mediocre or incompetent.

In the latter two cases, I think we can be sure that you would immediately and joyfully post them for all to see.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Aw....c'mon man. Don't be a grump. :([8D]

No really...I don't know what's between u and Brian...

...but I'd really like to see your swing. Honestly- I'd like to check it out man. Maybe Brian will post it now if you ask again...
 
jeffy

jeffy

Banned
quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

You can't teach his swing because it was heavily compensated and he had a move that few can do. The only one i've ever seen that does that same move is sergio garcia and he does it naturally. No one taught him to do it.
Click to expand...

Which move is that? BTW, I thought Sergio was taught by his father, a teaching pro.

Also, I disagree: I know of no reason why Hogan's swing can't be taught; you just can't learn it from Five Lessons because there is a huge mistake in that book (revealed by none other than Jim Hardy). Hogan had immaculate balance and efficiency; he couldn't have been the best ball striker ever tee-to-green (Nicklaus's opinion) and have had a flawed, "heavily compensated" swing. As he got older, his ball striking did not deteriorate, which would have happened with a compensated swing, and, based on Jody Vasquez's book, though he hit balls every day, Hogan didn't really practice all that much in the 1960's when, for example, he hit 34 consecutive greens at the U.S. Open at Cherry Hills, played the best tee-to-green round Gene Sarazen "ever saw" in the Shell match with Snead and shot 30 on the back nine at Augusta.

You may disagree, but I see a lot of Hogan in Knudson's swing (which he learned by studying Hogan) as well as in Scott McCarron, one of Hardy's pupils.
 
jeffy

jeffy

Banned
quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

Strange that they're both such good ballstrikers tho eh? With that difficult move I mean. I think a few years ago (pre-swing changes) Sergio was #1 in GIR or #1 in total driving or something...he might have even been #1 in both.
Click to expand...

Pradoxically, Sergio's GIR has improved dramatically following his swing changes (which I thought he worked on with his father, not Lead), although his total driving stats have deteriorated.

From PGATOUR.com:


--------GIR-----Total Driving----Ball Striking

2005.......3rd..........34th...................9th
2004.......4th.........109th..................51st
2003.....77th...........89th..................85th
2002....130th............4th..................61st
2001.....54th............1st...................16th
2000....176th...........3rd.................. 89th
 
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mb6606

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Watched the Hogan Palm Beach home movie again. His setup appears unique. Open Shoulders, open front foot, open hips. The clubhead is set up open and facing the inside aft portion of the golf ball. Setup seems like it would be easy to keep club on plane and hit a nice draw.
 
jeffy

jeffy

Banned
quote:Originally posted by brianman

Leadbetter would do the following with Hogan.

More right knee flex at the top.

Stand the club up on the backswing, more cup in wrist at the top.

Wider downswing, higher right shoulder through impact.
Click to expand...

Whether he knows it or not, Lead seems to favor a two-plane swing, which features a wide downswing and more horizontal shoulders. I guess it is easy to figure what he would have Hogan do by reading his disgraceful book The Fundamentals of Hogan. In that book, he proved that: 1) he really doesn't understand what Hogan was doing; and 2) he will exploit anything to promote his own swing theories of the moment.
 
jeffy

jeffy

Banned
quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

And no one (that I've heard of) teaches Hogan's swing or explains what he actually does either. Why?
Click to expand...

There is a guy in Texas who claims to have figured it out and purports to teach only "Hogan" fundamentals. His website is www.cegolf.com. Some interesting stuff on it.

The late John Schlee worked a lot with Hogan and claimed to be teaching what he learned from Hogan at his golf schools and in a book and video called Maximum Golf. Also interesting if you can find it.

The late tour player Gardner Dickinson also used to "teach Hogan", but, at some point, concluded that too much of his moves were "anti-hook", so he gravitated more toward Snead as a model.

Based on his teaching summit DVD, I think Hardy has figured it out and incorporates a lot of Hogan in his one-plane teaching.

Finally, I read an article not too long ago that there is woman teacher in California (I think) that Hogan more or less trained, but I can't remember her name.

BTW, Jody Vasquez's book suggests that Hogan's own teaching skills were, at best, limited.
 
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David Alford

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Anyone who claims to have figured out Hogan's swing, should be able to swing like him or relatively close to it. That rules out almost everyone.
 
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