Hogan, Norman etc...Seriously.

[birdie_man]

Seriously.

How did they hit it so good, like people always say...?

To me this question just hangs over golf.

If it is learned, then I guess no one really knows.

If it is innate, then no one can do it (yet) but whoever can may be out there.

Now that I have covered both extremes...

Questions:

Were they great because they have "secret" moves that they do?

Were their mechanics so optimal for them, and so specific, that they became greater than the sum of their parts?

Did they know other things that made them greater than the sum of those things?

Mental?

If you need specific numbers (Trackman) to hit specific shots you must need to make specific swings, no?

Consistency of mechanics or great physical ability/coordination? Where did they stand?

Maybe the level of personalization is such that even if what they did was exactly known it could not be applied with great success to other golfers?

I do know they both put in a great deal of time. Must've been for a reason, no?​

...

Seriously!!

 

[birdie_man]

I've probably posted threads like this before but I feel it needs to be addressed every now and then.

Like I said, it hangs over golf.

And human performance/potential is the ultimate, yes?

 

[jenhaoyen]

it's just kinda like why do some people sing so well...and some not so well...

hand eye coordination baby

 

[mgranato]

it's just kinda like why do some people sing so well...and some not so well...

hand eye coordination baby

Don't forget that Hogan didn't always sing like Hogan. He eventually found "something" that made it click for him. In his case, that would be learned, right?

 

[ZAP]

I would have to say that from a talent standpoint they may have had an advantage over others. I also feel that everyone with average athletic ability can play pretty good golf given the right instruction and practice.

Professionl athletes are generally freaks of nature just like people with super high IQs. There is just something superior about their ability. For some of them it is mental strength and for others is is superior physical skill.

I also believe that there are just as many people if not more who waste physical ability as those who waste mental aptitude.

Did any of that make sense or is it just the ramblings of a tired man home from school with a sick kid?

 

[Kevin Shields]

To hit it flush might be innate but accuracy can be taught or learned.

 

[GPM1985]

Those guys both practiced like dogs, and they started from very humble beginnings. I'd look at that before I attributed their skill to some unnamed, unquantifiable innate quality. Time on the range is quantifiable.

Moe Norman said he hit one million golf balls over five years, from age 15 to 19, and I believe him. That comes out to 548 balls a day. When you're hitting 548 balls a day, you're probably spending the time you're not hitting balls thinking about how to hit the ball better.

Ben Hogan started trying to hack it on tour when he was 17 years old, in 1930. At that point, no one knew who Ben Hogan was because he stunk, by his own admission. He didn't win a tournament until 1938 and didn't win a major until 1946. It took him a few more years to producethe swing everyone remembers him for.

The point is, both these guys ground it out, and they enjoyed doing it. Guys didn't spend a lot of time on the range back in the day, and Norman and Hogan were ahead of their time in their approach to practicing and their understanding of the golf swing.

I think it's also important to note that both men had something to prove. I know more about Hogan than Norman, but they each had their own personal struggles. I think mastery of the golf swing was a way for each man to prove himself.

So, I think practice and determination are what set Norman and Hogan apart. If they were exceptional genetic specimens, there probably wouldn't have been a need for 548 balls a day, or for a secret to be dug out of the dirt.

 

[puttmad]

Professionl athletes are generally freaks of nature just like people with super high IQs.

Perhaps the freaks of nature are the ones who are "normal" and the rest of us are just lagging behind....

Just a thought....

 

[footwedge]

To hit it flush might be innate but accuracy can be taught or learned.

I agree.

The thing is that most people are their own student and teacher all rolled into one, tough to perform that way, especially when the teacher part is more confused than the student part.

 

[jenhaoyen]

Don't forget that Hogan didn't always sing like Hogan. He eventually found "something" that made it click for him. In his case, that would be learned, right?

yeah, but if he doesn't really have in him, then it cannot be learned. Have you tried to teach people singing? Some people just can't sing...

 

[Richie3Jack]

That's something that will probably always be debated. I think we can all agree that their mechanics and alignments were fantastic, but their ability to repeat those mechanics and alignments is the enigma we don't quite fully understand. Even still, would've loved to seen their numbers on Trackman.

Hogan had a lot of special abilities. Very strong and flexible. Look at his flexibility despite all of those injuries from the accident, really amazing. He also had an innate ability to understand a lot about the golf swing. His diagram of the position of the feet at address gives a great indirect understanding of D-Plane way before anybody had even thought of D-Plane.

Many claim Moe had Aspberger's (sp?) Disease. I'm not so sure. While at times he could be bashful, he seemed way more personable and much more of an enterainer than anybody I've ever seen with the disease. I think he just wanted to heard and for years everybody was telling him he was doing it wrong despite out-striping them every single day. That would probably make most people a social recluse as well.

I do think either way a lot of it is mental. Takes an innate ability to be focused like that for every shot and to be focused so naturally and not allow poor shots to attack your confidence.





3JACK

 

[GPM1985]

Takes an innate ability to be focused like that for every shot and to be focused so naturally and not allow poor shots to attack your confidence.

So, can we just boil it down to discipline and cojones?

 

[DCgolf]

Behavioral scientists teach that both sensory and motor skills are partially determined by gentic code at birth (inherited from parents) AND partly learned through interaction with our environment. In Norman's case all you need to do is read about savant syndrome to know what drove him. With Hogan and many other great athletes, I think you will always find some level of obsessive/compulsive in them. Remember, Hogan couldn't play dead when he was young and Michael Jordan was cut from his high school team!

 

[Richie3Jack]

So, can we just boil it down to discipline and cojones?

I don't think anybody had more cajones than Moe. Takes a lot of cajones to believe that you can keep hitting shots pure and straight every single time.




3JACK

 

[aaron_lohan]

From what ive read i think Moe Norman's ability to visualise shots in ways no other golfer could do helped him immensely, autistic savants often have great ability to visualise things. Not to mention the fact that Moe and Hogan practiced more than anyone else.

 

[dannyc]

To hit it flush might be innate but accuracy can be taught or learned.

weird. i can always hit it flush, just hardly ever where i'm looking.

 

[Steve Greffen]

weird. i can always hit it flush, just hardly ever where i'm looking.

You've got to learn how to control your d-plane! And have someone like Krvin give you a lesson on Trackman.

 

[SJO]

I agree with GPM and disagree with almost all of the others. Hogan and Moe Norman weren't born with the ability to hit the ball like they did and they didn't "find" it whilst making a practice swing in a mirror. They both hit a ridiculous amount of balls which is overlooked and underrated nowadays in my opinion.

It seems to me that everyone is still looking for a shortcut, a golfing version of that electronic ab workout thing on the t.v, where you can do nothing and get a 6 pack. This is all despite Hogan imploring us that the 'secret's in the dirt'.

I think you can learn to strike it and learn to hit it straight, it's not going to fall in your lap though. Do some work!

 

[ZAP]

I agree with GPM and disagree with almost all of the others. Hogan and Moe Norman weren't born with the ability to hit the ball like they did and they didn't "find" it whilst making a practice swing in a mirror. They both hit a ridiculous amount of balls which is overlooked and underrated nowadays in my opinion.

It seems to me that everyone is still looking for a shortcut, a golfing version of that electronic ab workout thing on the t.v, where you can do nothing and get a 6 pack. This is all despite Hogan imploring us that the 'secret's in the dirt'.

I think you can learn to strike it and learn to hit it straight, it's not going to fall in your lap though. Do some work!

I only partially agree. The thing I think you are overlooking is the fact that
some people are more gifted than others physically, mentally and other ways as well. Do I know for a fact that Hogan was physically more gifted than anyone else? No.

I also do not know if people posting in this thread are looking for a shortcut necessarily. I agree with you that most people are not willing to do the work in many areas of their life. Not just golf. If I could find a way to make lazy fat people thin you would never see me again......well maybe if you frequently traveled the world golfing.

 

[vjcapron]

Practice

Moe Norman hit 1200 balls a day until the day he died. Hogan dug it out of the dirt. They both had to figure out how to hit a golf ball in order to eat.