hogan v.s. hogan
- Thread starter moeben
- Start date
- Status
Early v late
While your waiting for Brian, here are some observations by Ken Bowden circa 1976 you may find of interest.
The Early Hogan
• Very purposeful-looking in setting up— Palmer—like.
• Sights down line over left shoulder with feet still together after placing clubhead squarely behind ball.
• Stays in motion from moment of stepping up to ball to takeaway.
• Feet relatively wide apart for his height (5 feet 9 inches)—wider than the width of his shoulders. Toes of both feet pointed slightly outward. Weight seemingly toward the heels.
• Shoulders square to target line at address, with feet slightly open, hips a bit more so.
• Very erect stance. Only the slightest flex at the knees, slightest bend at the waist. Head high, butt out, back very straight, arms hanging easily.
• A line upward through spine at address would tilt five to 10 degrees away from target. Head in line with spine and only very slight chin rotation away from target starting backswing.
• Hands opposite center of body at address, with Clubshaft angled slightly away from target.
• Sets clubface very square to target at address. Seems to set club very lightly behind ball—doesn’t press it on ground.
• Much waggling of club with the wrists and forearms. Moves directly into backswing from final waggle.
• Hands lead clubhead very slightly into takeaway—slight dragging, but nowhere near as much as most of contemporaries.
• Definite pronation (clockwise rotation) of left hand and arm early in backswing.
• Apart from this dragging and pronation, a one-piece takeaway—everything in line from the left shoulder to the clubhead as hands reach hip height.
• Very full and pronouncedly fiat shoulder
• Power of the shoulder turn pulls the hips around, eventually through about 45 degrees. Also pulls left knee back behind the ball and left heel slightly off ground— although action is more a roll onto inside edge of foot than a heel lifting.
• Right leg straightens as body winds up, but leg doesn’t move an inch laterally.
• Wrists are cocked very fully, but late in the backswing—seemingly by the weight and momentum of the clubhead rather than deliberately.
• Left arm is firm and extended at top, the hands high above the head.
• Clubhead drops way below horizontal at top, shaft almost to a 45-degree angle. Also, club slightly “crosses line” (points right of target).
• Knees drive toward target as first move of downswing.
• As legs continue to drive laterally toward target, left shoulder seems to drive slightly forward with them.
• Hips begin to turn and clear almost simultaneously with leg drive.
• Wrist-cocking actually increased by initial leg drive. Hands and arms are pulled, or dropped, backward onto even flatter, “more inside” plane. This appears to be increased by or associated with slight arching, bowing, or backward bending of the left wrist as the downswing starts.
• Swings very much “underneath” body with head centered at all times.
• Extremely late release of wrists in downswing. Hands are inches ahead of ball before wrists fully uncock. Ultra-late release undoubtedly owing to immense thrust generated by leg/hip action. Also causes massive “extension” through ball—amazing for so small a man.
• Left leg straightens through impact, hits against “braced left side.”
• Huge follow-through—sheer velocity or momentum of clubhead pulls arms high and way back behind head, violently twists shoulders around, almost spins player off feet.
The Late Hogan
The basic characteristics and “mood” of swing were the same, but there were some definite differences:
• Even greater impression of power and purposefulness at address, especially in the firmness and security of set of hands and forearms on club.
• Stance slightly narrower. Right foot now square (at right angle to target line).
• Knees now pronouncedly set, or “cocked,” more toward target at address.
• Hands a little higher at address, giving more arched-wrist appearance.
• Fewer waggles and what there are are more to the “inside.”
• Clubhead moves back momentarily before hands start back—all “drag” eliminated.
• Plane of shoulder turn discernibly flatter.
• Swing much shorter, with shoulder turn cut from about 110 to 90 degrees and less wrist-cocking.
• Hands at top much lower, now level with tip of right shoulder (goes with flatter plane and lesser shoulder turn).
• At top of swing back of left wrist, previously slightly “cupped,” now in line with back of hand and forearm.
• Club now “laid off” (pointed a little left of target) at top of backswing, rather than crossing line.
• More right-arm folding. Elbow even closer to body at top. Points more downward during backswing and until hands reach hip height on downswing, when right arm begins to straighten. More compact.
• Greater impression that “triangle” formed by shoulders and arms stays constant throughout swing. More compact.
• Right knee no longer straight at top of backswing—entire right leg remains slightly flexed but immobile (where it was at address) throughout backswing.
• Left knee remains flexed longer after impact, although sheer extension and momentum of follow-through still force it to straighten eventually.
• Because of flatter plane, swing is more “rotary” and less “up and under.” Right shoulder higher through impact.
• Shoulders appear to unwind earlier, more in unison with fast hip clearance.
• Extension through ball seems even greater. Right arm stays straighter longer after impact than that of any player except Nicklaus.
moeben said:
While your waiting for Brian, here are some observations by Ken Bowden circa 1976 you may find of interest.
The Early Hogan
• Very purposeful-looking in setting up— Palmer—like.
• Sights down line over left shoulder with feet still together after placing clubhead squarely behind ball.
• Stays in motion from moment of stepping up to ball to takeaway.
• Feet relatively wide apart for his height (5 feet 9 inches)—wider than the width of his shoulders. Toes of both feet pointed slightly outward. Weight seemingly toward the heels.
• Shoulders square to target line at address, with feet slightly open, hips a bit more so.
• Very erect stance. Only the slightest flex at the knees, slightest bend at the waist. Head high, butt out, back very straight, arms hanging easily.
• A line upward through spine at address would tilt five to 10 degrees away from target. Head in line with spine and only very slight chin rotation away from target starting backswing.
• Hands opposite center of body at address, with Clubshaft angled slightly away from target.
• Sets clubface very square to target at address. Seems to set club very lightly behind ball—doesn’t press it on ground.
• Much waggling of club with the wrists and forearms. Moves directly into backswing from final waggle.
• Hands lead clubhead very slightly into takeaway—slight dragging, but nowhere near as much as most of contemporaries.
• Definite pronation (clockwise rotation) of left hand and arm early in backswing.
• Apart from this dragging and pronation, a one-piece takeaway—everything in line from the left shoulder to the clubhead as hands reach hip height.
• Very full and pronouncedly fiat shoulder
• Power of the shoulder turn pulls the hips around, eventually through about 45 degrees. Also pulls left knee back behind the ball and left heel slightly off ground— although action is more a roll onto inside edge of foot than a heel lifting.
• Right leg straightens as body winds up, but leg doesn’t move an inch laterally.
• Wrists are cocked very fully, but late in the backswing—seemingly by the weight and momentum of the clubhead rather than deliberately.
• Left arm is firm and extended at top, the hands high above the head.
• Clubhead drops way below horizontal at top, shaft almost to a 45-degree angle. Also, club slightly “crosses line” (points right of target).
• Knees drive toward target as first move of downswing.
• As legs continue to drive laterally toward target, left shoulder seems to drive slightly forward with them.
• Hips begin to turn and clear almost simultaneously with leg drive.
• Wrist-cocking actually increased by initial leg drive. Hands and arms are pulled, or dropped, backward onto even flatter, “more inside” plane. This appears to be increased by or associated with slight arching, bowing, or backward bending of the left wrist as the downswing starts.
• Swings very much “underneath” body with head centered at all times.
• Extremely late release of wrists in downswing. Hands are inches ahead of ball before wrists fully uncock. Ultra-late release undoubtedly owing to immense thrust generated by leg/hip action. Also causes massive “extension” through ball—amazing for so small a man.
• Left leg straightens through impact, hits against “braced left side.”
• Huge follow-through—sheer velocity or momentum of clubhead pulls arms high and way back behind head, violently twists shoulders around, almost spins player off feet.
The Late Hogan
The basic characteristics and “mood” of swing were the same, but there were some definite differences:
• Even greater impression of power and purposefulness at address, especially in the firmness and security of set of hands and forearms on club.
• Stance slightly narrower. Right foot now square (at right angle to target line).
• Knees now pronouncedly set, or “cocked,” more toward target at address.
• Hands a little higher at address, giving more arched-wrist appearance.
• Fewer waggles and what there are are more to the “inside.”
• Clubhead moves back momentarily before hands start back—all “drag” eliminated.
• Plane of shoulder turn discernibly flatter.
• Swing much shorter, with shoulder turn cut from about 110 to 90 degrees and less wrist-cocking.
• Hands at top much lower, now level with tip of right shoulder (goes with flatter plane and lesser shoulder turn).
• At top of swing back of left wrist, previously slightly “cupped,” now in line with back of hand and forearm.
• Club now “laid off” (pointed a little left of target) at top of backswing, rather than crossing line.
• More right-arm folding. Elbow even closer to body at top. Points more downward during backswing and until hands reach hip height on downswing, when right arm begins to straighten. More compact.
• Greater impression that “triangle” formed by shoulders and arms stays constant throughout swing. More compact.
• Right knee no longer straight at top of backswing—entire right leg remains slightly flexed but immobile (where it was at address) throughout backswing.
• Left knee remains flexed longer after impact, although sheer extension and momentum of follow-through still force it to straighten eventually.
• Because of flatter plane, swing is more “rotary” and less “up and under.” Right shoulder higher through impact.
• Shoulders appear to unwind earlier, more in unison with fast hip clearance.
• Extension through ball seems even greater. Right arm stays straighter longer after impact than that of any player except Nicklaus.
- Status