Hogan's swing speed

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thefuture37

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In Mclean's dvd about Hogan's swing, it says his SS was estimated at 132mph. Not sure if I buy that. In Demaret's old book about Hogan, he says that Hogan was an average 260-270 yard driver. Considering the agronomy of the time, figure that that includes 10 yards of roll. So his average carry was about 250-260 with a 43.5inch persimmon driver(low lofted too apparently). For those who know alot about old equipment, what kind of swing speed would be necessary to generate that much carry with that kind of driver?
 
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magic43

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thefuture37 said:
In Mclean's dvd about Hogan's swing, it says his SS was estimated at 132mph. Not sure if I buy that. In Demaret's old book about Hogan, he says that Hogan was an average 260-270 yard driver. Considering the agronomy of the time, figure that that includes 10 yards of roll. So his average carry was about 250-260 with a 43.5inch persimmon driver(low lofted too apparently). For those who know alot about old equipment, what kind of swing speed would be necessary to generate that much carry with that kind of driver?
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Don't you also have to figure into the equation that Hogan also played with a very high spin Balata covered ball? That said, someone with more knowledge of golf equipment than me will have to answer your question as to what Hogan's swing speed would have been to achieve the given carry distance.
 
self-mastery

self-mastery

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I don't believe he had a 132mph clubhead speed. Are we talking pre-wreck or post-wreck Hogan. There's noway post-wreck Hogan swatted it at that speed. My uneducated guess is that post-wreck Hogan would have a 280 or slightly shorter drive with modern equipment, and that pre-wreck Hogan would swat it in the 290's.

Now that Snead guy was a beast! He would probably knock it 330 with good accuracy. Definitely a Tiger tamer!
 
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thefuture37

Banned
Demaret's book was published in 1954, so I guess he was talking about post wreck. Good point about the high spin balls too. Another thing to think about is whether Hogan would give up some driving accuracy in order to maximize his launch conditions(low spin=less backspin=less accuracy).
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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I don't know how many yards Hogan "lost" because of the very ball, but it's rather easy to estimate his "loss" with his persimmon head driver compared to modern titanium ones. Actual COR is 0.83 when a persimmon head's one was around 0.75, as far as I remember.
Now, the difference is 0.83 - 0.75 = 0.08; the difference in ball speed would be around 5 mph that amounts to a bit less than 10 yards. With a modern driver and his 132 mph and optimal parameters (LA - 7*, ball spin - 2400 rpm, PTR - 1.5), Hogan would have a 305 yd carry.
Thus, the conclusion is - either the old type of ball had a much larger negative impact than the old persimmon head or Hogan swinging 135 mph is a bit too optimistic a value (especially post-accident Hogan).

Cheers
 
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holeout

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Dariusz J. said:
Thus, the conclusion is - either the old type of ball had a much larger negative impact than the old persimmon head or Hogan swinging 135 mph is a bit too optimistic a value (especially post-accident Hogan).

Cheers
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I think that the golf balls they played with have a much larger impact on distance than did the persimmon heads. That being said, I don't think Hogan had swing speed in excess of 125 mph. He could hit it, but in my opinion I think he would've topped out at 125 or so.
 
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thefuture37

Banned
So add on another ten yards of carry to account for the wooden head. That gives 270 yard carry for a 43.5in driver. His driver was the same length as most three woods today. And a modern three wood is going to spin a modern ball more than a driver. So that accounts for some of the added spin of the old ball if you think of hogan's driver and old ball as a modern three wood with the modern ball. So the question is, how much SS(assuming a perfect Hogan 1.5 smash factor) do you need to carry a three wood 270 yards with a modern ball?
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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Well, assuming a today's strong #3 wood - carry: 270 yds, launch angle:13* and ballspin: 3200 rpm, the ball's initial velocity should be around 170 mph;
therefore, the SS (with optimal PTR) would amount to ca. 110-115 mph.

Cheers
 
shortgamer

shortgamer

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Just put 132 mph in the trajectoware program and with around a 9 deg. launch it spit out 322 yards of carry! Holmes tour average is 310. So Mclean seems to imply Hogan was the longest hitter maybe ever on tour? Bubba is at 316.
 
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tongzilla

tongzilla

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How long is Hogan? What would his stats be today?

I'd say Hogan-1953 on tour today (using today's ball, driver, and fairways) would have an average driving distance of 280 yards and average driving accuracy of 70-80%. Hogan-1948 would probably have an average driving distance of about 290-295 yards and similar driving accuracy (maybe slightly less accurate).

Remember, he's 5'7" and 137 pounds!

Some hogan fan will probably try and tell me he should have a driving accuracy stat of 90%+ but I highly doubt that.

It's better to compare irons than driver because of the relatively slower pace of technological development...distance wise anyway. Hogan hit his 6 iron about 150 yards...I think I saw that in one of the shell matches or something. Can anyone give some stats on his iron length?

Regarding the comparison with Snead, I am told (I don't know if it's accurate info though - can some hogan devotee pls confirm) that Snead and Hogan used to play long drive competitions and Hogan would win his fair share against Snead.
 
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komanin

komanin

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in the beginning of the season golf channel showed us trackman data, it was comforting to see that the average carry was 260 for some of those guys on tour and that they got another 30-40 yards of roll. i cant get that much roll at my course or any, but i will play Redstone right after the event here in Houston and will report back on yardage. Why did they quit showing trackman? I read the other day that golf is on decline. But i suppose if majority of golfers thought that 250-60 carry average was acceptable there would be less need for 400$. its all about marketing i guess. thank good for Brian!
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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310 I'm pretty sure is JB's tour driving average BTW.

I'm not sure how many 3 woods and 2 irons he hits off the tee but I have a hunch if you want him to pull driver and CARRY it 310 on any given day he could do it pretty easily.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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tongzilla said:
Some hogan fan will probably try and tell me he should have a driving accuracy stat of 90%+ but I highly doubt that.
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Well, 90+ was not inprobable, mate. However, I agree to you that it rather was between 80 and 90%, knowing how quite unique Hogan was with his precision.
I doubt if it was below 80% because it would suggest that e.g Johnson/Furyk today are almost in his range of driving accuracy...

Cheers
 
J

johngolf33

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tongzilla said:
I'd say Hogan-1953 on tour today (using today's ball, driver, and fairways) would have an average driving distance of 280 yards and average driving accuracy of 70-80%. Hogan-1948 would probably have an average driving distance of about 290-295 yards and similar driving accuracy (maybe slightly less accurate).

Remember, he's 5'7" and 137 pounds!

Some hogan fan will probably try and tell me he should have a driving accuracy stat of 90%+ but I highly doubt that.

It's better to compare irons than driver because of the relatively slower pace of technological development...distance wise anyway. Hogan hit his 6 iron about 150 yards...I think I saw that in one of the shell matches or something. Can anyone give some stats on his iron length?

Regarding the comparison with Snead, I am told (I don't know if it's accurate info though - can some hogan devotee pls confirm) that Snead and Hogan used to play long drive competitions and Hogan would win his fair share against Snead.
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I don't think you can go by iron distance because the older irons had totally different lofts than today's irons. Every iron is jacked stronger today than in the 50's.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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johngolf33 said:
I don't think you can go by iron distance because the older irons had totally different lofts than today's irons. Every iron is jacked stronger today than in the 50's.
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Exactly. This is why we need a gap wedge in our bags today. It's called a "vanishing loft syndrome"...

I always was of the opinion that the loft should be stamped on the soles of irons instead plain numbers (or alongside with the number). It would stop OEMs to claim that their new irons hit balls farther that those of their competitors and to say this "crap" to golfers in media.

Cheers
 
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