Hogan's Transitional Hip Slide Orientation

[dsmith2296]

People often talk about Hogan's targetward hip slide right before the club gets to the top. My question is whether it is a slide parallel to the target line. It seems to me that the slide itself it parallel, but that his hips are slanted -perhaps at a 30 degree angle or so- in relation to the target line.

So what is he accomplishing by slanting the hips a bit and moving them targetward at transition (kind of like he is backing into the target) My guess is that he is creating some room for the right elbow to fire through.

Thoughts?

 

[spktho]

As Brian mentions in his SD video, it is probably somewhat of a "counter-fall" move.

 

[Chris Sturgess]

Isn't a "counter fall" the back moving toward the target? Hogan didn't do that, he only moved the hips.

 

[pecky987]

to me a counter-fall is simply letting your weight settle or 'fall' on to your left heel. whether your whole upper body does it like brian does, or you sorta 'sit' into your left side, like i suspect hogan did, it is still a counter fall

 

[mew09golfer]

dsmith:

I agree with your analysis. The sharp turn about the right hip on the takeaway, is followed by a "slide" or movement of the then turned hips toward the target, prior to much unwinding. Agree that the slide or movement is accompanied by a fall of weight into the left side. This effect in essence moves the "tailbone" targetward, increasing room for a fall of the arms, including right elbow. The right elbow can now pass more easily in front of the right hip, minimizing the change of a "flip".

 

[dsmith2296]

I think that his "slanted hip" movement toward the target occurs just as his left shoulder is reaching its fully stretched out point over the right knee. I think its important that his weight is STILL on his right side when he makes the targetward bump. Only when he starts to TURN his hip does he transfer his weight to the left. I think this timing is very critical.

Agree?

 

[pecky987]

I think that his "slanted hip" movement toward the target occurs just as his left shoulder is reaching its fully stretched out point over the right knee. I think its important that his weight is STILL on his right side when he makes the targetward bump. Only when he starts to TURN his hip does he transfer his weight to the left. I think this timing is very critical.

Agree?

no, i disagree. as he takes the club away his shifts to the right, and his weight moves rightward, and his hips turn about 40/50*. as he gets about 2 thirds thru his backswing he begins to shift his weight towards the left. he keeps his hips turned whilst he did this. then as his arms got to the top, he was already on his left leg and then just unwound around that

 

[magic43]

Pecky987 is correct according to V. J. Trolio. He is the author of the book on Hogan that Brian has mentioned in the SD pattern video and several other times in various post.

As was pointed out in the book and proved out by video of Hogan in the 1967 Masters, Hogan had shifted some 85% of his weight onto his lead foot as he reached the top of the backswing. From there all he had to do was turn his hips as hard and fast as he wanted toward the target to initiate the downswing without fear of hooking the ball left.

 

[dsmith2296]

no, i disagree. as he takes the club away his shifts to the right, and his weight moves rightward, and his hips turn about 40/50*. as he gets about 2 thirds thru his backswing he begins to shift his weight towards the left. he keeps his hips turned whilst he did this. then as his arms got to the top, he was already on his left leg and then just unwound around that

I love a good debate!

Play this clip and focus your attention on his left heel, trying to ascertain when it starts to bear the brunt of his weight.

YouTube - Hogan Grid

I had your viewpoint before I tried the move at the range (which, by the way, necessitated that I find the proper shoulder turn first, but thats another thread- but very worthwhile). I found that once I put my weight back to the left, it drastically inhibited me from firing through with my hip turn. I also slid my center laterally passed the ball and was unable to keep behind it. So I went home and youtubed this clip and went back to the range and I found that the "transitional hip-slanted bump" seems to occur prior to the left foot bearing a majority of the weight. Watch his left foot and report back your thoughts.

Try to pause the swing when he get just past parallel. See, from there his right foot is flat and his left foot is partially off the ground and he has already done his "bump". The left knee is NOT loading bearing on the left foot yet!

 

[dsmith2296]

Pecky987 is correct according to V. J. Trolio. He is the author of the book on Hogan that Brian has mentioned in the SD pattern video and several other times in various post.

As was pointed out in the book and proved out by video of Hogan in the 1967 Masters, Hogan had shifted some 85% of his weight onto his lead foot as he reached the top of the backswing. From there all he had to do was turn his hips as hard and fast as he wanted toward the target to initiate the downswing without fear of hooking the ball left.

I don't dispute what others have said now. Alls I'm sayin is that I think we'd all agree that Hogan's right foot is dead flat at the top of the backswing and the OUTSIDE of his left foot is off the ground and his left knee it pointed inward. Now I don't care where you are right now-- on the course or in a suit in your office-- you try to stand up and keep your right foot dead flat with the outside of your left foot off the ground and your left knee pointed inward and while doing all of that put 80% of your weight on your left foot. - It ain't happening for me!

But for any of you that CAN do that, now try to turn your hips as fast as your can.

 

[puttmad]

I love a good debate!

Play this clip and focus your attention on his left heel, trying to ascertain when it starts to bear the brunt of his weight.

YouTube - Hogan Grid

I had your viewpoint before I tried the move at the range (which, by the way, necessitated that I find the proper shoulder turn first, but thats another thread- but very worthwhile). I found that once I put my weight back to the left, it drastically inhibited me from firing through with my hip turn. I also slid my center laterally passed the ball and was unable to keep behind it. So I went home and youtubed this clip and went back to the range and I found that the "transitional hip-slanted bump" seems to occur prior to the left foot bearing a majority of the weight. Watch his left foot and report back your thoughts.

Try to pause the swing when he get just past parallel. See, from there his right foot is flat and his left foot is partially off the ground and he has already done his "bump". The left knee is NOT loading bearing on the left foot yet!

ds,
you've lost the plot a bit mate..

The hip bump is for weight transference.......and the weight doesn't neccessarily go to the left heel...the reason it is a lateral weight shift is because it is more difficult (timing wise) to do it with a simple turn...

The reason you find it difficult to turn your hips with your weight on the left foot is because you are not using the top of the left leg as your rotational center, i.e you should pivot around the left leg, not around the spine. If you try to pivot around your spine, it requires that you need to pull the left hip back more (which, as you've found, you can't do with your left leg posted)...

 

[pecky987]

I love a good debate!

Play this clip and focus your attention on his left heel, trying to ascertain when it starts to bear the brunt of his weight.

YouTube - Hogan Grid

I had your viewpoint before I tried the move at the range (which, by the way, necessitated that I find the proper shoulder turn first, but thats another thread- but very worthwhile). I found that once I put my weight back to the left, it drastically inhibited me from firing through with my hip turn. I also slid my center laterally passed the ball and was unable to keep behind it. So I went home and youtubed this clip and went back to the range and I found that the "transitional hip-slanted bump" seems to occur prior to the left foot bearing a majority of the weight. Watch his left foot and report back your thoughts.

Try to pause the swing when he get just past parallel. See, from there his right foot is flat and his left foot is partially off the ground and he has already done his "bump". The left knee is NOT loading bearing on the left foot yet!

you see, hes in the process of moving his weight. you cant make that move statically. heres an analogy.

imagine a photo of a 100m sprinter, with the background all blurred but with the sprinter in focus. for example they may just be on their left toe. you cannot possibly get into that position by standing in a room, you'd lose your balance. but start running at pace and you'll get into this position easily.

the point is, hogan did all of this at high speed in a dynamic fashion. he is in the process of shifting weight at what looks like the 'top' of his swing. his actual top of the swing happened well before the club got to its furthest point back.

 

[golfspike]

Hogan debates are endless but full of information . No doubt Hogan would be having a good laugh as most of the information and the books written on his swing simply cause its all GUESSING and the Hogan rendition swings of these people are just not even close

 

[dsmith2296]

With regard to the frame which shows Hogan past parallel at the top, i.e. the top of his backswing, if I was a bug who did not want to be squashed to death, I would rather be under his left foot rather than his right.

And as much as I enjoy arguing semantics, I think the distinction is actually important if you get caught up in really trying to get down to the nitty gritty in trying to reproduce the move.

On another note, I did have 5 birdies in one round today!

 

[pecky987]

With regard to the frame which shows Hogan past parallel at the top, i.e. the top of his backswing, if I was a bug who did not want to be squashed to death, I would rather be under his left foot rather than his right.

And as much as I enjoy arguing semantics, I think the distinction is actually important if you get caught up in really trying to get down to the nitty gritty in trying to reproduce the move.

On another note, I did have 5 birdies in one round today!

i think we have some confusion on what really is the 'top' of his swing. its late now. i'll post about it later

 

[dsmith2296]

If this doesn't prove that his weight is still on his right foot when the patented counter-turned hip slide is finished, I don't know what else I can do to prove my case. You can see that once this move is finished and he starts to TURN his hips, he then transfers the weight.

YouTube - Hogan's transition

 

[puttingarc]

Hey Brian!


The above youtube is not Hogan in competition. Post wreck competition footage shows a different pivot sequence. Post wreck "staged" footage shows a hip slide-axis tilt during the transition. Just take a look at the footage.

 

[golfer24]

If this doesn't prove that his weight is still on his right foot when the patented counter-turned hip slide is finished, I don't know what else I can do to prove my case. You can see that once this move is finished and he starts to TURN his hips, he then transfers the weight.

YouTube - Hogan's transition

I agree with you dsmith i definately believe Hogan had pressure in his right foot in his transition which is down to pushing off the ground with the right leg. Pressure and weight may be different however as Homer was asked in an audio clip which i can't find at the moment.

 

[pecky987]

If this doesn't prove that his weight is still on his right foot when the patented counter-turned hip slide is finished, I don't know what else I can do to prove my case. You can see that once this move is finished and he starts to TURN his hips, he then transfers the weight.

YouTube - Hogan's transition

i mirror puutingarc's comments, and also that particular video has a horrible camera angle. brian was once going to do an analysis of hogan face on, but didnt want to use that video as the camera angle is terrible. the camera is postiond more toward the target.

it makes it look like hes playing his driver from the middle of his stance. it will also eliminate some of the look of his right hip moving toward the target early in his backswing, because it is happening, but due to this particular camera angle it looks like his right hip is staying 'stationary' when it is actually moving target-ward

hope this makes sense

 

[dsmith2296]

What you can see from this angle is that Hogan had his left knee kicked in and his left food 'rolled' so that only the inside of his left foot was touching the ground whereas the outside of his right foot was off the ground slightly.

Now watch closely. Imagine you are a bug underneath the outside of his left foot with the opportunity to fly away once he does his patented transitional hip move. Notice, he actually drags the left foot ever so slightly towards his right while it is still in the rolled inward position when he makes the transition. If I were that bug I could fly away right then- before he starts to turn his hips. Do you see?