I understand that the trail shoulder should move down plane from start down. How do you CHECK with precision that it is truly moving downplane ? I was asked this question today by a friend of mine that just missed getting through first stage tour school and did not have a conclusive answer.
How do you CHECK your trail shoulder is moving dow
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Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
I would like to know this too.
I know you can use video and draw where the turning shoulder plane is and make sure that the shoulder travels down the line during the downswing. Other than that, no idea.
Guessing here....but if you are tracing a straight plane line is the trail shoulder going downplane?
I know you can use video and draw where the turning shoulder plane is and make sure that the shoulder travels down the line during the downswing. Other than that, no idea.
Guessing here....but if you are tracing a straight plane line is the trail shoulder going downplane?
Henry Picard
New
cf. 10-13-D #3
The only way the right shoulder does not travel DOWN the plane is if you stand upright. Any spine angle in the address set-up moves the right shoulder back DOWN on the DOWNswing. Where's the ball? Up? Its DOWN on the ground- go get it. A level, flat turns of the shoulders are perpendicular to the spine- all level shoulder turns are perpendicular to the spine, even if bent over from the waist at a 90* angle.
Check Chuck Cook, he's TGM
http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/index.ssf?/instruction/gd200502cook.html
Check Chuck Cook, he's TGM
http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/index.ssf?/instruction/gd200502cook.html
Maybe I should find another teacher. But there's no AIs or such nearby. Perhaps what the guy meant with "it should not move down" was that there should be no hip tilt, but that it should rotate in place. Of course, due to spine angle tilt, this means it is moving downplane - but perhaps he meant that I move it down below the plane.
Ulrich
Ulrich
birdie_man
New
From the top, the right shoulder should move down FIRST....THEN out and forward. Pretty much downplane.
i.e. this plane: http://www.manzellagolfforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1905
What you DON'T want...is for the shoulder to move out and forward, THEN down....that's what the slicer does....that's what you do when you "come over the top."
Like this guy (shudders):
http://www.golfdigest.com/instructi...uction/swingsequences/gd200502swingslice.html
Now, I don't know that I'd wanna go trying to consciously move my right shoulder downPLANE....but just monitor it and KNOW that's what happens.
I'd guess the downplane movement should be a result of either:
-the right hand/forearm/shoulder or w/e remaining completely passive (in Swinging)....the only reason why the right forearm does anything on the downswing is because Centrif. Force throw it out....throws it into the ball (i.e. pointing at the plane line at Impact). Bent right wrist at Impact.
or....
-the right hand/forearm/shoulder remaining passive until the last moment (in a Hitting stroke). The right arm is thrusted at the ball at the last moment (last moment!) in Hitting. Not from the top. Bent right wrist at Impact.
You have to get that "hit from the top" instinct outta there. It can be a tough thing to do but becomes natural with practice.
birdie_man
New
BTW, that Golf Digest hacker-guy actually looks like he has a pretty flat left wrist at the top...
...but look at how quickly his right wrist unbends in the downswing....no lag AT ALL. That is clubhead throwaway. Hit from the top....."over the top." Coming from the outside on the downswing (right forearm and clubshaft point well outside the ball until the last moment....but the clubface, I'm sure, is WIDE open at Impact).
His impact alignments (more or less): bent left wrist, flat right wrist.
The opposite of ideal.
Horrible reverse pivot too.
...but look at how quickly his right wrist unbends in the downswing....no lag AT ALL. That is clubhead throwaway. Hit from the top....."over the top." Coming from the outside on the downswing (right forearm and clubshaft point well outside the ball until the last moment....but the clubface, I'm sure, is WIDE open at Impact).
His impact alignments (more or less): bent left wrist, flat right wrist.
The opposite of ideal.
Horrible reverse pivot too.
Well, I'm not a slicer, but I do come over the top with a square to closed clubface. So it's pull/hook city. I can actually fade and slice the ball by doing Brian's "Up the wall - down the wall" routine. But it's a bit harder to make consistent contact, so I only use that swing when there is absolutely no room on the left.
I've tried to get rid of this outside-in swingpath for a long time, but nothing seems to work.
Ulrich
Brian Manzella
Administrator
If your head doesn't go forward...
...and your tailbone moves toward the target...
...and your hips continue to open...
and your right arm and #3 PP move down the plane toward the inside-aft quadrant...
You did it!
...and your tailbone moves toward the target...
...and your hips continue to open...
and your right arm and #3 PP move down the plane toward the inside-aft quadrant...
You did it!
Brilliant Brian. That reply is short but yet so clear and easy to understand.
I find a great way to get the right feel for this is the baseball or step drill. I find the stepping back towards the target before my hands reach the top of backswing dynamically starts my transition and does exactly what you say i moves my tail bone first while my hips rotate oenp and it kinda naturally gets my right forearmsand pp#3 heading where it should.
Your opinions on that drill?
I find a great way to get the right feel for this is the baseball or step drill. I find the stepping back towards the target before my hands reach the top of backswing dynamically starts my transition and does exactly what you say i moves my tail bone first while my hips rotate oenp and it kinda naturally gets my right forearmsand pp#3 heading where it should.
Your opinions on that drill?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I don't mind it.
Just get your right hipbone past the ball.
Just get your right hipbone past the ball.
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