How do you take the upper body out of the swing?

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Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

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In my lessons with Brian, we worked on taking my round house shoulders out of commission as well as my trying to add power from the upper body on the downswing.

My last lessons were about 2 months ago. I gradually got better each week until last week (and this week). The swing is totally lost. I'm reviewing my videos from the lessons and I know this is where I need to focus.

Anyone struggle with this and overcome it? If so, how? Thanks!
 
self-mastery

self-mastery

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What do you mean by "trying to add power from the upper body"? I'm always either at war or in love with my right forearm, and in the past went as far as learning an Ernest Jones type pure swing to learn how to swing without right arm participation. How do you specifically attempt to add power with the upper body?

OT- I didn't fully learn how to actually SWING a club until I understood throwout action and how to use my left hand. What a gem!
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
"Schwing dem orms, Brian. Schwing dem orms." — Alvin Jewell

Mr. Al was a teaching pro, who by the time I was started playing, was just working behind the counter selling balls at the driving range.

He had the strongest hands I ever had sqeeze mine. By a lot.

Anyhoo, Mr. Al would watch me hit balls from the big window. Boy did I swing hard at it. All upper body.

He used to stand there and swing his arms, trying to get me to do the same.

I would go in for a drink and he's say in his strong half mumble:

"Schwing dem orms, Brian. Schwing dem orms."

​
One day, I finally listened. I got better right then and there. A lot better.


Bill,

SWING THOSE ARMS FROM YOUR SHOULDER SOCKETS.

SWING 'EM!!!

If you do—I mean REALLY do—you won't NEED to "muscle it."


I know. Believe you me. :cool:
 
Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

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Brian Manzella said:
Bill,

SWING THOSE ARMS FROM YOUR SHOULDER SOCKETS.

SWING 'EM!!!

If you do—I mean REALLY do—you won't NEED to "muscle it."


I know. Believe you me. :cool:
Click to expand...

I think I am such a visual learner, feel comes hard for me......

I really am starting to understand how I am ruining the assmebly package by unconsciously firing the hand/arms in trying the HIT the ball. I think this is the 3rd or 4th time you've told me to Schwing dem orms. Hopefully, I'll get it this time.

I think I need to load the package then hold that to a certain point in the downswing and instead of adding power with the arms...just let them go...release em! Right? Is there a point in the downswing that I can try to visualize getting my hands to that I just let them falll? Am I on the right track and ....is there something I can mentally visualize that might help here (like hands half way down or such)???

As you said in your comments above, I can see where this is the key for me getting to a new level of play

Thanks!
 
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pieman

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ok. good to know that brian. but.....if concentrating on swinging the arms, does that take away a concentrated pivot? would think it be difficult to concentrate or deliberately do both simultaneously.
 
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joeparr

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OK, now I`m really confused. Here I`m trying to not use my arms with more pivot, now you say swing the arms. Please explain how do you swing the arms with the pivot ,what leads what??
 
Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

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It does get confusing JoeParr...

Went out and practiced yesterday. One of my faults, as Brian would describe, is if the swing is a train, then the pivot is the locomotive. The end of the swing is the arms, hands. If they try to speed the train up then you get a train wreck from adding too much power from that which should be pulled.
My caboose tries to push the train as the pivot is pulling it.

So, in trying to avoid this...I seem to develop a lot of tension in the arms. With the tension there, it really is difficult to take the caboose out of trying to add to the swing. The stiffness/woodenness causes poor results which cause the add on power from the rear to return. Trying to hit or muscle the ball for better results.

When I try to keep the arms like noodles, I end up letting them go too limp and end up casting and losing the fold of the right arm too soon and also the left wrist.

Also, in trying to lead with the lower body, and get over to the left side, I've added all kinds of new faults...mainly a wicked push/block.....which I AM starting to understand why (too much axis tilt not enough turn). Another fault is over doing to motion of the lower body (too fast with the downswing hip turn)

So, to answer your question from my perspective, I THINK I need to let the feet start the downswing. Mainly the left foot down or pushing, lower weight moves to the left side, left hip begins to turn while holding the hands back for a moment to take out the slack between the upper and lower body. From there, let the upper body simply follow the lower body to swing freely...without tension and without adding power from the rear...while holding what I call the power assembly together (right elbow bend and left wrist cock) until the CF takes over through impact and releases it.

Even though I've only played golf for two years, this is so foreign to the swing I originally developed, I am questioning whether I can execute it. I'm a major mess right now...lots of doubts and frustration.

One more thing...I am trying to imagine that while I am trying to create tension/take out slack between my upper and lower body, the arms are really loose in the shoulder sockets. Just flappin in the wind....going along for the ride. This is what I perceive and swinging the arms.

Hope this wasn't info overload. For me, this is a complicated but necessary process for me to leave hackerdom.
 
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Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

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Thanks, I'd love

to hear Brian's (or other staff's) comments on it. I'd like to know if I am on to something or have paralysis by analysis.
 
L

LiftOff

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Bill

I read your post and really liked the train wreck analogy. Every once in a while I read a post that hits home. Sort of like, that’s me! Or, I’ve got to remember that! Those little nuggets are gold. (I print them out.)

While I don’t have your problems, I’ve invented my own set, we all do a tremendous amount of introspection. From reading your post, I believe you are on the right track, (you’re here and addressing the problem), so keep the faith and don’t let up. Continue to see Brian for the feedback.

Happy Holidays, Cliff
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
In the MANZELLA MATRIX...

speedracer68 said:
so let me get this clear..there is room in the matrix for hands controlled pivot and pivot controlled hands?? =)
Click to expand...

...all swings are controlled by the golfer's brain. The hands, knowing exactly where the club needs to be, esp. the clubface, dictate to the whole motion.
 
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teeithigh

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hi bill, keep those arms like noodles, tension free! i heard ken venturi say the arms (and hands, club) will go where the body (pivot)directs them...try this great drill...."the whirleybird" cock the club straight up and down with your hands in front of your right ear...while still staying it address posture...now quickly turn the left shoulder back to the top of your backswing and then fire your left hip at the target WHILE YOUR ARMS-HANDS-CLUB JUST FALL DOWNWARD!!!!! don't add power from the upper body...just feel that "whirlybird" whip action powered by the left hip.....adjust ball position as necessary....you will feel brian's idea...mannequin arms just flying off the torso by the power of the left hip.....
 
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JeffM

New member
A push block problem could be due to excessive hip shift in the initial part of the shift-rotation movement of the lower body that starts the downswing. The shift should just be a hip bump in order to get weight on the left leg, and that small left-lateral pelvis shift should immediately be followed by a left hip clearing action. I think that practicing skipping stones is the best way of ingraining this "feel".

Jeff.
 
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