How does Trackman/Flightscope measure the club face angle?

[ParHunter]

Hi,
Does anyone know how Doppler radar devices like trackman measure the face angle? IMHO the device can only 'see' the back of the club so how do they figure out the face angle? I can sort of guess how they are getting the aoa and path but don't have a clue how they are getting the face angle.

My best Xmas present this year came from my PGA pro. He just ordered a Flightscope X2 Can't wait to have my first lesson on it.

Regards

ParHunter

 

[Jon Hardesty]

Math...

 

[Michael Jacobs]

Hi,
Does anyone know how Doppler radar devices like trackman measure the face angle? IMHO the device can only 'see' the back of the club so how do they figure out the face angle? I can sort of guess how they are getting the aoa and path but don't have a clue how they are getting the face angle.

My best Xmas present this year came from my PGA pro. He just ordered a Flightscope X2 Can't wait to have my first lesson on it.

Regards

ParHunter

An impact model is used - club head is represented as a flat body in the model. X2 is a great product! Here is a little diagram I drew a while back:

 

[wulsy]

Seems to me that the whole LM thing is totally dependent on the math model being used.

Square face, zero path, toe hit push draw READS as open faced, square path push draw. BUT open face, square path = push slice, right? So the user has to suss out that it must've been a toe hit, right? Not great for 20 grand investment, no?

 

[Michael Jacobs]

Seems to me that the whole LM thing is totally dependent on the math model being used.

Square face, zero path, toe hit push draw READS as open faced, square path push draw. BUT open face, square path = push slice, right? So the user has to suss out that it must've been a toe hit, right? Not great for 20 grand investment, no?

The models have been verified ad nauseam --- so yes well worth the investment. You should go buy one wulsy

 

[Todd Dugan]

That doesn't mean that the face angle reading is wrong. Its not TM's fault that a twisting clubface effects the spin axis. And as far as I know, the face angle reading is made without consideration of the spin axis. It is a simple matter of comparing the direction the clubhead is moving with the direction the ball launches, with a few other factors like ball speed and launch angle considered, to determine where the face must have been pointing at max compression. But remember, the face twists by max compression, on off-center hits. TM is essentially reporting the face angle at max compression, since this is the time when the face angle has its effect on initial launch conditions.

 

[mgranato]

Seems to me that the whole LM thing is totally dependent on the math model being used.

Square face, zero path, toe hit push draw READS as open faced, square path push draw. BUT open face, square path = push slice, right? So the user has to suss out that it must've been a toe hit, right? Not great for 20 grand investment, no?

Launch Monitors 101 Pop Quiz:

Where was contact in relation to the sweetspot if Path 0*, Face 1.5*, Spin axis -3*?

A. Heel
B. Toe
C. Need video camera to determine


Quit your sandbagging.

 

[Frans@France]

From the TrackMan blog : David Howell – The Importance of Center Impact

TrackMan measures the 3 dimensional direction and speed of the clubhead at impact, in addition the 3 dimensional ball launch direction, speed and spinrate are measured by TrackMan.

By measuring these parameters and applying the law of physics this provides the orientation of the clubface at the point of impact on the clubface. This orientation of the clubface is 3 dimensional and are reflected in the data parameters “face angle” and “dynamic loft”. Even though that “face angle” and “dynamic loft” are derived numbers from direct measurements and a collision model, numerous robotic test has proven that this is indeed a very accurate calculation of “face angle” and “dynamic loft”.

 

[ParHunter]

Ah okay, so the face angle is calculated based on other measurable parameters. So would you recommend to use impact tape in order to figure out the influence of toe/heel hits?

 

[Michael Jacobs]

Ah okay, so the face angle is calculated based on other measurable parameters. So would you recommend to use impact tape in order to figure out the influence of toe/heel hits?

No impact tape par, it annoys friction on the strike. I would use dry erase marker.
Btw - thanks so much for that email and computer tip much appreciated

 

[wulsy]

Thanks for the link Frans. Interesting article.

Mgran: I'm not sandbagging, honest.

 

[wulsy]

Hey Freddie: why not get the device to put up something like:

"This was most probably a TOE hit". Would make it easier for Joe Punter to use the device. Man, I'm good.

 

[Brian Manzella]

What a joke these goofy "face measured" number threads.

YOU HAVE TO USE MATH NO MATTER WHAT!!! to figure the top of the D-Plane.

Geeeeeeeezzzzzzz..................

 

[Frans@France]

Hey Freddie: why not get the device to put up something like:

"This was most probably a TOE hit". Would make it easier for Joe Punter to use the device. Man, I'm good.

SO when is joe punter going to buy a TM? ....Man, I'm better

 

[bryan@nobackswing.com]

No impact tape par, it annoys friction on the strike. I would use dry erase marker.
Btw - thanks so much for that email and computer tip much appreciated

dry erase marker is a great idea. i've been using impact paint but marker seems like a better option.

 

[wulsy]

SO when is joe punter going to buy a TM? ....Man, I'm better

Same time as John Doe, Joe Shmoe, Joe Bloggs and Joe Public. I really think they need to make it smaller, cheaper and more user friendly. Steve Jobs would have made a good one. Otherwise it will remain a complicated and expensive device for fitters and instructors.

But wulsy probably be buying one pretty soon.