How many lessons does it take to get to the center....

[vjsinger]

Due to my hijacking of yet another thread I start this new one with a few questions directed at everyone. How many lessons and how much time does it take "on average" for someone to overcome a "major swing flaw"...something in which I don't know how to define. Maybe you guys can come up with that.

I'll define a lesson. A one on one in person lesson for one hour.

I realize everyone learns at a different rate, but thats why I said average.
Basically: How long does it take? How many lessons? What constitutes a major flaw? Is it possible to change alot with just one lesson and with some internet help, such as this site? Thanks.

 

[dbl]

I'll answer with a few specifics. I videod my swing one day and saw I had popout. So I practiced a non popout backswing and had it in place for a game 5 days later. And, by the way, that change stayed in place.

Another time I had some issues which seemed to a bad angle of attack and too much throwaway. So I went to a pro for an assessment. He made 4 changes in my setup, and suggested a different downswing path or motion...and I practiced those for a week, and the throwaway was gone.

 

[birdie_man]

It surely depends on what you are working on Mr. vj.

I do know that when pivots and hands need training it can take a bit more 'work.'

i.e. I cannot make a very good pivot left-handed right now...I do know what it takes (the mechanics) but right now it is beyond awkward swinging left-handed.

Learning NHA took a while for me too. Swinging that upright and left felt very strange after doing the opposite for a long time.

 

[softconsult]

I'm not sure this fits this thread, but here it goes.

I am struck by the amount of endless analysis, and swing tinkering detail that is discussed and agonized over. I too find myself falling into this mindset.

In my Monday round, I snap low hooked the first three drivers and it screwed up my mind for the rest of the round. Shot an 87. Today, I am warming up and told myself that my only swing thought for the day for tee shots was going to be turn the core (belly). Nothing else. I warmed up hitting drive after drive down the pike. Then I actually managed to maintain that swing thought. I couldn't tell you where my arms were, whether my wrists were cupped, flat, or arched. Result. One errant tee shot all day that resulted in a double. Shot 75. The point is that this analysis stuff really be overdone to the point of making things worse.

Just my opinion folks,

 

[ggsjpc]

I think you may want to add how much productive pratice will also be needed. Lessons alone won't give an answer. Same as learning a language. Unless you use it, it takes a long time.

 

[birdie_man]

When it comes time to executing whatever swing you happen to own I presume you want to think about as little as possible for max results.

Knowing is different than tinkering though and it is no joke. (we know how to fix slicers and hookers for example) I do also tinker like crazy though.

Anyone can do whatever it is they want though. I pretty well have always been into this stuff.

 

[vjsinger]

I think you may want to add how much productive pratice will also be needed. Lessons alone won't give an answer. Same as learning a language. Unless you use it, it takes a long time.

Indeed Sir..IMO this is by far the most important part, once you get the correct information. I brought up this very important point once before, but someone turned it into an exhausting debate that got way off topic and I feel that it may have been glossed over and forgotten. Hopefully not again. Yes we should add this..very important and is a skill that must be learned just like the grip or the pivot. Anyhoo...proceed. This is a fun one I think.

 

[gravity003]

I can tell you I have read and heard PGA pro's work for a year or longer to get something ingrained. So keep working if you are going down the right path. My problem is I always go down the wrong path.

Must say my swing has improved the most in the last 10 years from this sight. I feel real good about my backswing but not so good about the down swing. Will keep working on backswing and search for the path for the downswing.

 

[holeout]

I think in many cases you fight the same tendencies for life. Some guys will almost always fight swinging too far right because they get used to seeing the ball fly through a certain "window" and can't quite get used to swinging left and seeing a different ballflight.

I know that for myself, I always fight getting my hands a little too high on the backswing and a little laid off. I have to "re-correct" myself every so often with a "no arm-lift, high right elbow" backswing, and I'm fine with that. I'd rather know what I'm doing wrong and know how to fix it over and over again than have a different problem every two months.

Geoff Ogilvy has said that his ball-striking has kind of a rhythmic pattern of ups and downs. He says that he'll start getting "stuck" as he puts it, then fix it, hit it great, then not as great, then just ok, then bad, and he's back to getting stuck again. He fixes it again, and he's back to hitting it good. He said at the Mercedes (which he won by 5 or 7 or so) that he fixed it on Tuesday, hit it his best on Wednesday and Thursday, then it slowly got worse until Sunday he just hit it reasonably well enough to shoot a good score. Kinda interesting.

 

[vjsinger]

The Ogilvy example is interesting. I have a similar wave pattern to my game as well, depending on how busy my work schedule gets and how much I get to play/practice. I certainly have a tendency to get underplane with the big stick. I work on timing and rhythm, or what my friends say counting. I've figured out that I hit the driver my best, assuming my shoulders don't tilt too much, when I swing @ 80 BPM and @ 76 BPM with irons and slightly slower with wedges..maybe I need to fix the lies on the wedges...anyway....interesting how sometimes our bodies are so amazing at "remembering" rhythm or technique feels, almost Buddy Rich like, and other times our time is about as good as Jamie Lynn Spears...yikes.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Getting to YOUR center.

Helping a golfer find HIS or HERS best pattern, and perfecting it, is what we do at the Brian Manzella Golf Academy.

It may, or may not be, close to the center of the Manzella Matrix.

How long does it take?

I'll answer this the best I can, by first re-phrasing the question...

How does does it take to have a golfer get to the "coaching phase" with their swing, ala David Toms and Lindsay Gahm?​

BRIAN MANZELLLA's ANSWER:

At least 10 hours of work over a period of time, but sometimes much less, and often, mouch more.

 

[vjsinger]

Helping a golfer find HIS or HERS best pattern, and perfecting it, is what we do at the Brian Manzella Golf Academy.

It may, or may not be, close to the center of the Manzella Matrix.

How long does it take?

I'll answer this the best I can, by first re-phrasing the question...

How does does it take to have a golfer get to the "coaching phase" with their swing, ala David Toms and Lindsay Gahm?​

BRIAN MANZELLLA's ANSWER:

At least 10 hours of work over a period of time, but sometimes much less, and often, mouch more.

Could the "Coaching Phase" also be defined as the "Maintenance Phase", if you get my drift, or is it a little more complicated than that? I'm just trying to understand the meaning thats all.