How to flatten the downswing
- Thread starter c21heel
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You are probably not making a full turn on the backswing. This keeps the right shoulder from reaching the point where it can move down-out-forward on the downswing plane. If you turn until you feel your back pointing at the target, and also feel like you hold this position for a split second before starting the downswing, it will help to prevent the over-the-top move. This also helps to engage the lower body to begin the downswing.
c21heel
New
Bullish,
I know I'm guilty at times of not completing my backswing, but I'm not sure I know eactly how to get a full shoulder turn. I've watched video of my full swing and it seems the more I try to turn, the more I lift my head. And, when I try to turn my shoulder under my chin (a little more vertical), I hit a lot of fat shots.
I obviously don't understand the right forearm takeaway as I've never hit a good shot using that technique.
I know I'm guilty at times of not completing my backswing, but I'm not sure I know eactly how to get a full shoulder turn. I've watched video of my full swing and it seems the more I try to turn, the more I lift my head. And, when I try to turn my shoulder under my chin (a little more vertical), I hit a lot of fat shots.
I obviously don't understand the right forearm takeaway as I've never hit a good shot using that technique.
My tendency used to be to 'tighten up' as I made my turn causing me to end my turn too quickly/start back down too quickly. I know everyone has varying degrees of flexibility, but I have found that if my body stays supple/relaxed, I feel more comfortable completing my back swing and less rushed on the way down. This is easier said than done, especially following say, a three putt from inside 12 ft.
c21heel
New
Ironically enough, my game is all about putting and driving. I rely on both to keep my handicap in the high single digits. My iron play really drives me crazy at times. 4 out of 10 iron shots will be on the chunky side which costs me just enough distance to have to rely on my short game or putter to save par...can't make many birdies that way.
I've watched videos of my swings...I tend to raise my head on the backswing, get a little over the top on the downswing, and have some clubhead throwaway...all of which contributes to my tendency to hit it fat.
On a positive note, distance is not a problem.
I've watched videos of my swings...I tend to raise my head on the backswing, get a little over the top on the downswing, and have some clubhead throwaway...all of which contributes to my tendency to hit it fat.
On a positive note, distance is not a problem.
bantamben1
New
hows the clubshaft halfway back from behind it should be pointing at the target line or slightly inside it. if it is pointing outside the target line you will have a strong tendency to come over the top
Erik_K
New
I am working on this too.
Here are my thoughts, hopefully some of this will help.
What is your right hip doing? When I am swinging my right hip gets in the way and my upper body is forced to move 'over' it, aka over the top, aka too steep.
The hip motion and right shoulder action is critical here.
I am a swinger and I don't know for sure if the hip action for hitters and swingers are the same. I believe swingers need to slide their hip across the line (sort of out to right field). This move, for me, needs to be exaggerated.
Also, the better players that I know don't have overly long swings. The longer the swing, the harder it is to swing back down correctly. Maintain those flying wedges from start to finish.
The image I like to use or even warm up with is to act like I am going to throw the club out to the target. When I do this, the lower body leads and my head stays relatively still, but I do have the correct hip action (axis tilt). Don't overcook the axis tilt.
When i got a lesson from Ted Fort he told me that he used to play with a guy from Austrailia that was one of the best ball strikers he'd ever seen. The aussie told him that for two years his main swing thought was to keep his tailbone to the target as long as possible.
Jack, in one of books, said that he liked to keep his butt out as long as possible. This is akin to Redgoat's tushline and there is perhaps no better way to 'drop into the slot' than to monitor the tush line. This can be done easily by placing a small a chair up against your backside and swinging. Nearly all golfer, that i've seen, who come over the top stand up and they will end up coming off their tush line.
Where else could you be going wrong?
Well, there's the takeaway, of course. And it's amazing how much money people spend on lessons, clubs, and training aids and what they don't realize is that they are dead long before they even reach the top of their swings. In my experience, when i take the club to the inside too much I tend to be very steep coming down (golf is a game of opposites). Of course it is possible to be at a terrific top of swing position and still come down too steep.
My advice:
1.) Check takeaway
2.) Check position of right hip. If necessary setup a bit closed to the ball and think keep tailbone to the target
3.) let the lower lead-get the weight to the left side first before you swing down.
4.) don't be afraid to shorten the swing some
Here are my thoughts, hopefully some of this will help.
What is your right hip doing? When I am swinging my right hip gets in the way and my upper body is forced to move 'over' it, aka over the top, aka too steep.
The hip motion and right shoulder action is critical here.
I am a swinger and I don't know for sure if the hip action for hitters and swingers are the same. I believe swingers need to slide their hip across the line (sort of out to right field). This move, for me, needs to be exaggerated.
Also, the better players that I know don't have overly long swings. The longer the swing, the harder it is to swing back down correctly. Maintain those flying wedges from start to finish.
The image I like to use or even warm up with is to act like I am going to throw the club out to the target. When I do this, the lower body leads and my head stays relatively still, but I do have the correct hip action (axis tilt). Don't overcook the axis tilt.
When i got a lesson from Ted Fort he told me that he used to play with a guy from Austrailia that was one of the best ball strikers he'd ever seen. The aussie told him that for two years his main swing thought was to keep his tailbone to the target as long as possible.
Jack, in one of books, said that he liked to keep his butt out as long as possible. This is akin to Redgoat's tushline and there is perhaps no better way to 'drop into the slot' than to monitor the tush line. This can be done easily by placing a small a chair up against your backside and swinging. Nearly all golfer, that i've seen, who come over the top stand up and they will end up coming off their tush line.
Where else could you be going wrong?
Well, there's the takeaway, of course. And it's amazing how much money people spend on lessons, clubs, and training aids and what they don't realize is that they are dead long before they even reach the top of their swings. In my experience, when i take the club to the inside too much I tend to be very steep coming down (golf is a game of opposites). Of course it is possible to be at a terrific top of swing position and still come down too steep.
My advice:
1.) Check takeaway
2.) Check position of right hip. If necessary setup a bit closed to the ball and think keep tailbone to the target
3.) let the lower lead-get the weight to the left side first before you swing down.
4.) don't be afraid to shorten the swing some
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Why do you think you need to flatten it?
c21heel
New
Erik_K, that is some good information, I'll work on all your recommendations this week to see which one will work. I appreciate your thoughts and help!
Brian, I've reviewed a lot of my old videos and if there is one thing that I have in common in all of them is that I am always above the swingplane on the downswing. I think this has contributed to me hitting the ball fat as my divots tend to be deep and to the left. Just looking at the inside of the ball hasn't helped.
I have an overly steep swing and hit a lot of fat shots.
Brian, I've reviewed a lot of my old videos and if there is one thing that I have in common in all of them is that I am always above the swingplane on the downswing. I think this has contributed to me hitting the ball fat as my divots tend to be deep and to the left. Just looking at the inside of the ball hasn't helped.
I have an overly steep swing and hit a lot of fat shots.
Erik_K
New
c21:
You may also want to try this idea out. In your last post you are cognizant of the inside-aft quadrant. With that in mind, set up normally and tee the ball up and grab your 9 iron. Now, with 50-75% power hit the ball RIGHT of target. I don't want a ball that starts straight and then slices over or a ball that is blocked right and 'draws' back to the target. You want, more or less, a ball that is straight and lands 'X' yards right of target.
If your problem is deep divots to the left, then focus on hitting shots that go right-but not with an open face. Thus, your shots should have divots that point to right field. Do this from normal address. Don't line up right of target-that is cheating.
The idea is to make small swings and develop the 'skill' it takes to hit the ball where you want it to go. We don't want a lot of power, for that 'hit' instinct might be part of the problem. If you think tension is the cause, then bite your tongue when you swing. I am not kidding. Put your tongue between your teeth and make smooth swings. Slow it down and FIX THAT PATH.
You may also want to try this idea out. In your last post you are cognizant of the inside-aft quadrant. With that in mind, set up normally and tee the ball up and grab your 9 iron. Now, with 50-75% power hit the ball RIGHT of target. I don't want a ball that starts straight and then slices over or a ball that is blocked right and 'draws' back to the target. You want, more or less, a ball that is straight and lands 'X' yards right of target.
If your problem is deep divots to the left, then focus on hitting shots that go right-but not with an open face. Thus, your shots should have divots that point to right field. Do this from normal address. Don't line up right of target-that is cheating.
The idea is to make small swings and develop the 'skill' it takes to hit the ball where you want it to go. We don't want a lot of power, for that 'hit' instinct might be part of the problem. If you think tension is the cause, then bite your tongue when you swing. I am not kidding. Put your tongue between your teeth and make smooth swings. Slow it down and FIX THAT PATH.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Have you ever seen "Never Slice Again" ?
c21heel
New
Brian,
I bought your confessions of a flipper and the video shorts, but not the never slice again video. To be honest, I thought I would try to schedule a lesson with you later this month and then see what you thought I should work on the most. Trying to spread the expenses out just a little
.
BTW, how far away from the "big skateboard park" are you? My son wants to make this a family trip to Louisville!
I bought your confessions of a flipper and the video shorts, but not the never slice again video. To be honest, I thought I would try to schedule a lesson with you later this month and then see what you thought I should work on the most. Trying to spread the expenses out just a little
.BTW, how far away from the "big skateboard park" are you? My son wants to make this a family trip to Louisville!
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I am about 20min from the cement park
c21heel
New
Erik_K,
Your recommendation to clear the right hip out of the way on the downswing worked great today. I went 18 holes without hitting a single fat shot!
And your recommendations couldn't have come at a better time as my team was crowned league champions today! I appreciate you and everyone else on this board who try to help fix broken golf swings. It certainly takes some of the bitterness out of this crazy game!
Your recommendation to clear the right hip out of the way on the downswing worked great today. I went 18 holes without hitting a single fat shot!
And your recommendations couldn't have come at a better time as my team was crowned league champions today
! I appreciate you and everyone else on this board who try to help fix broken golf swings. It certainly takes some of the bitterness out of this crazy game!
Erik_K
New
Glad it worked...now go see Brian so he can install a more permanent fix
quote:Originally posted by c21heel
Erik_K,
Your recommendation to clear the right hip out of the way on the downswing worked great today. I went 18 holes without hitting a single fat shot!
And your recommendations couldn't have come at a better time as my team was crowned league champions today
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