How to not cross the line?

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birly-shirly

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Please post your thoughts, feels or moves for getting away from an across the line position at the top towards a more in-line position.

Anyone who has wrestled with this - please post what problems you came up against, especially if you resolved them.

Many thanks

BS
 
G

goley

New
A question for Brian or one of the other staff. Does the starting position of the left elbow help in not crossing the line? At address should the left elbow point more towards the left hip or should it be rotated clockwise more so it points closer to the target? I have also had problems with crossing the line at the top and have struggled with trying to correct it. The one feeling that has work with some sucess is pointing the butt of the club at the top of the swing way outside to the target line.
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

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imagine someone standing about 5 feet behind you (looking at your bum) with an empty range ball bucket at around the same height as your head. He holds that bucket horizontally with the empty side facing you. Try to shove your clubhead into that bucket on the backswing. You will never swing across the line again.
 
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softconsult

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Tongzilla's illustration is very good. In my lesson with Mike Jacobs, he also used
a visual target. He pointed to a trash can and told me point the butt of the club
at it when I reached the top of the backswing. Feels like half a backswing, but it
works.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
trust me from someone who has issues with a flat backswing and getting too laid off, leave it alone. a lot of good things can come from a cross the line swing, very few can do it with a laid off swing
 
B

birly-shirly

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thanks for the suggestions so far.

A few questions.

Matt - that seems the sensible route, but you don't think that early LAFW rotation as often as not results in the wrists/forearms flipping the clubhead across the line by the time you reach the top? I could be wrong, but that's what I felt I did for years as a junior.

Westy - any tips as to how?

TaylormadeAP25 - can you say a little more about what's in those videos and the changes? Dramatic difference at the top - but on the way back I saw just a little steeper shoulder turn and quite a lot less closed of a clubface. What are the relationships to the position at the top?

Tongzilla - vivid imagery, thanks. Do you move the guy holding the basket around, depending on results?

Steve - I hope you don't mind me observing that your post is uncharacteristically imprecisely expressed. Where was the trash can?;)
 
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lia41985

lia41985

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Say the position of your club at address is at 12 o'clock. Instead of trying to swing the club from going from 12 to 3 to 9 on the backswing, feel as if you're moving the club going from 12 to 1 to 7.
 
B

birly-shirly

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Jim Kobylinski said:
trust me from someone who has issues with a flat backswing and getting too laid off, leave it alone. a lot of good things can come from a cross the line swing, very few can do it with a laid off swing
Click to expand...

Jim - I appreciate the warning. Can I ask whether you feel the same way if I give you a little more detail?

I know I've got in to out path issues, and issues with a hook that in the summer can run the width of a fairway. And fat wedges.

A fairly pronounced across the line position at the top seemed a fairly obvious place to try and deal with my path. (Actually, I've tried a few other things over the summer because I wanted first to try things that didn't feel too contrived or "position-bound" but I'm not convinced that I've found anything that will stick)

Do you still think to steer well clear?

Cheers
BS
 
Matt Bryda

Matt Bryda

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birly-shirly,

Matt - that seems the sensible route, but you don't think that early LAFW rotation as often as not results in the wrists/forearms flipping the clubhead across the line by the time you reach the top? I could be wrong, but that's what I felt I did for years as a junior.
Click to expand...

I guess if you are across the line at the top then you really haven't rotated the LAFW hardly at all, so maybe a little rotation whenever you want going back is a better way to phrase it.

Matt
 
E

ej20

New
I prefer to see a neutralish position at the top.Neither laid off or across the line too much.This doesn't require a big reroute to get the club back on a good plane on the downswing.

There are a number of things that can get the club more inline from across the line.A late rotation of the LAFW.This feels like spilling a bucket of water behind you as you reach the top.This is drastic and can lead to over compensation and being laid off.

Keeping the right elbow pointed down at the top.Not as drastic but may require sufficient flexibility.

Shortening the arm swing or in other words,don't take the hands as far back ala Moe Norman and Hogan.This is not as drastic also but can lead to loss of distance.I prefer this option for most amateurs as average players need better accuracy,not distance.Keeping the arm swing short can uncomplicate the swing enormously.Doug Sanders apparently went weeks without missing a fairway.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
birly-shirly said:
Jim - I appreciate the warning. Can I ask whether you feel the same way if I give you a little more detail?

I know I've got in to out path issues, and issues with a hook that in the summer can run the width of a fairway. And fat wedges.

A fairly pronounced across the line position at the top seemed a fairly obvious place to try and deal with my path. (Actually, I've tried a few other things over the summer because I wanted first to try things that didn't feel too contrived or "position-bound" but I'm not convinced that I've found anything that will stick)

Do you still think to steer well clear?

Cheers
BS
Click to expand...

try the same swing with a really open stance, see what happens and report back
 
S

softconsult

New
Birly, hah!, you got me on this one.

I was struggling first to remember exactly how the trash can was located relative
to my stance, and then struggling with how to describe it. Gave up and settled for vague.
 
B

birly-shirly

New
Jim Kobylinski said:
try the same swing with a really open stance, see what happens and report back
Click to expand...

Jim - I've tried aiming both foot line and shoulders well left. I get the occasional pull hook, but mostly I just over-react and push fade it even further right.

How far left do you mean? I guess I might be lined up 15 - 20 yards left on a mid-iron and I could still miss the green right.

If I line up more square, then I tend to hit a push draw - but we're not talking a few feet of movement in the air here, sadly...
 
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siksta

New
A cross the line top is simply underrotated forearms can you play golf from there yes is it hard yes. If you hit a lot of balls daily you can time the hands day in and day out the good news it will drop inside on downswing the bad news it takes a lot of practice because the hands and club travel a lot. Laid off can be good depending on clubface in this situation the hands haven't traveled far but youbetter have a great shoulder turn and strong post impact this swing is less maintenance and is more pivot driven. When i was younger i also had that long cross the line swing monday great if my timing was on Tuesday if i was quick couldnt find the fairway. History shows us both swings work but me personally dont have 3to 5 hrs a day to work on swing and hit balls. Good Luck.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Why are you across the line? Cupped wrist? Under rotated wedge? Whats the ball flight? Do you have trigger delay? What kind of grip do you employ?...........

An across the line swing has two moves to the ball, shallow it to the plane and then cover. Alot of people cant do that. An on line or slightly laid off can be only one move. You really should post your swing when you have a question like this. There's a hundred different variables when you're talking laid off vs. on line vs. across the line.

All three work perfectly fine matched up with other components. Do you have a swing to post?
 
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