How tough was Tiger's chip-in, really?

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jeffy

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During next week Masters, we will be treated, no doubt, to countless replays of Tiger's terrific chip-in at 16 on Sunday of last year's tournament.

Obviously it was not an easy shot, took great imagination to "see" and enormous self-confidence to pull off under those conditions. But how tough was it, really? Not as tough as the hype, IMO.

Here's why I think so: the typical Sunday pin placement feeds the ball to the cup. It is almost like a funnel. Consider that during the final round in 2004 there were two aces on 16 and that there was also an ace there in the final round in 2005 (the pin position was pretty much the same both years). Given that there are about 50 players playing Sunday, that is an extraordinary 3 out of 100 probability of acing 16 in the final round at the Masters, or odds against of only about 33 to one. In contrast, I read somewhere on the internet that the probability of a hole-in-one during an average round is 1 out of 5,000, which translates roughly to a 1 out of 20,000 probability on any one par three, assuming an average of four par threes per 18 holes. I assume the odds are better for tour pros, but no where near as good as these odds. That says to me that it is MUCH more than luck that we've seen so many aces at 16 on Sunday; the conditions must be unusually favorable as well.

So, how does this relate to Tiger's chip? Tiger was chipping into the area that feeds the ball to the hole. Even if it hadn't gone in, it was dying right around the cup for an easy tap-in. I've sat near 16 on Sunday, and, in addition to the aces, there are always quite a few tap-in birdies, the crowd oohing and aahing as the ball feeds down that slope. That doesn't happen when the pin is elsewhere on that green. If Tiger were chipping to the upper right portion of the green, for example (the toughest pin location on 16), the ball would run away from the cup. Compared to Watson's chip-in on 17 at Pebble Beach, where the green went away from him and the ball would have been 15 feet past if it had missed the cup, Tiger's conditions were much more favorable. A great shot, no doubt, but not the "one out of a million" effort popularly portrayed.

Anyway, that's my take. Let the flaming begin!
 
Tiger himself said it was complete luck. that he was trying to get it up on the slope and try to get it inside 15 ft. Just one of those instances where the stars aligned and something really special happens. Of course as Gary Player always said "the more I practice the luckier I get."
 
Tight lie, under pressure, fast as hell green where guys putting from the area he had to aim don't even get it close. I would say it was pretty tough and a pretty damn good shot under the circumstances.

Your post makes you sound like a Tiger hater. Give the guy credit. He pulled off an awesome shot under extreme pressure. If you don't hit that chip in the right place you're either off the green or left on the top shelf. Just because it feeds to the hole doesn't mean you just chip it on the green and it will go towards the hole. You have to still hit your spot. I think anything withing 3 feet would be a pretty damn good shot.
 

jeffy

Banned
quote:Originally posted by wanole

Your post makes you sound like a Tiger hater.

Nonsense. I'm looking at the facts, and if a pin location is serving up an ace every 17 twosomes, it ain't that hard to get it close.


quote:Originally posted by wanole
Give the guy credit. He pulled off an awesome shot under extreme pressure.

I do give him credit, just not as much as the media that didn't bother to analyze the playing conditions:

quote:Originally posted by jeffy

Obviously it was not an easy shot, took great imagination to "see" and enormous self-confidence to pull off under those conditions...

A great shot, no doubt, but not the "one out of a million" effort popularly portrayed.

quote:Originally posted by wanole
Just because it feeds to the hole doesn't mean you just chip it on the green and it will go towards the hole. You have to still hit your spot. I think anything withing 3 feet would be a pretty damn good shot.

That's why they play golf for a living; it's there job to "hit the spot".
 
I think I agree with Tiger, there was a fair amount of luck in that shot. everyone keeps talking about how he held up to the pressure, but the only reason we got to see that great chip is because he pulled the heck out of that tee shot, and missed the green. IMO Tiger is not the best chipper on tour(though he is great) but we've all seen the chips come back to his feet at the US Open, and he had one do the same to him at the players. Maybe there is something to the adage, "luck beats good"
 
Those hole in ones are given up from the front of the green not the short side where Tiger was. Watch other guys try and get up and down from there this year. It's not easy.
 

jeffy

Banned
quote:Originally posted by wanole

Those hole in ones are given up from the front of the green not the short side where Tiger was. Watch other guys try and get up and down from there this year. It's not easy.

Did I say it was easy? I don't think so...Anyway, I'll pay close attention this year and report back...
 

Garth

New
Jeffy, I think we went through this before, and like i said to you that time... those hole-in-ones have absolutely nothing to do with the chip that Tiger had. Nobody holes that chip he had, especially under those circumstances. By your logic, every downhill putt or chip is easy because they all feed towards the hole. You still have to hit it exactly where you want to and allow for the 120 degrees of break. Yep.. easy :(
 
Yo dog, I hear what your saying,,,BUT,

Given the fact that it is Sunday, in the same group with DiMarco who's having a solid to great round. Oh, it is the Masters coming down the stretch...

to have the ball come down the slope, to slowly make its way to the hole with an ever so fabulous camera angle, the Nike swoosh turning its way into our living room, and to conserve every bit of its energy barrrrrelly trickleling into the hole. It is a shot that will be part of Masters folklore for years to come.

under those circumstances, a very difficult shot for absolute perfection,,,and wonderful drama for the viewing audience...


honorable mention to Larry Mize's chip shot win over Norman in 1987...?
 

jeffy

Banned
quote:Originally posted by Garth

Jeffy, I think we went through this before, and like i said to you that time... those hole-in-ones have absolutely nothing to do with the chip that Tiger had. Nobody holes that chip he had, especially under those circumstances. By your logic, every downhill putt or chip is easy because they all feed towards the hole. You still have to hit it exactly where you want to and allow for the 120 degrees of break. Yep.. easy :(

GARTH...everything is relative; look at my OP: I didn't say it was easy and I did say it was a great shot under the circumstances. BUT, the conditions favored Tiger compared to other possible hole locations. Does Tiger deserve a lot of credit for imagination and skill to pull it off? YES! But was it fluky lucky as some have said? No. Sure, going in was a nice bonus, but geting it close given the conditions wasn't "a million to one". Given Tiger's skill and the conditions, I think he should have been expected to get it close. Once in a while, it'll go in; just happened to be last year when it really mattered.
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
What made Tiger's shot hard was the fact that the ball was sitting against the cut of the rought. Hard to make a good chip shot when the ball is on fringe and the club has to go through rough to get at it.
 
quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

What made Tiger's shot hard was the fact that the ball was sitting against the cut of the rought.
I don't think it was against the fringe, although it appeared to be. As I recall Tiger said he was lucky is was not.

Regarding the pins. I feel many Sunday pin placements - as usual - are selected to give players an opportunity to score.

Just look at 2, 4, 7, 9, 13, 14, 16 and 18 - to name a few. You'll end up close to those pins if you hit it in the correct part of the green - and the margin is not as tough as some other days.

Still: It was a great chip.
 

jeffy

Banned
quote:Originally posted by metallion

quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

What made Tiger's shot hard was the fact that the ball was sitting against the cut of the rought.
I don't think it was against the fringe, although it appeared to be. As I recall Tiger said he was lucky is was not.

Regarding the pins. I feel many Sunday pin placements - as usual - are selected to give players an opportunity to score.

Just look at 2, 4, 7, 9, 13, 14, 16 and 18 - to name a few. You'll end up close to those pins if you hit it in the correct part of the green - and the margin is not as tough as some other days.

Still: It was a great chip.


Yes, it was a great chip: I walked down by the green Sunday before the final round started and inspected the hole location; the slopes were unreal. But a chip-in to any of the other hole locations last week might have been harder. Thursday, Friday and Saturday, the hole was cut on the upper level on the right half of the green: only perfect shots stayed by the hole. In fact, on Thursday several shots hit within three feet but spun down into the swale on the left side.

Can't remember who, but there was a good bunker shot Sunday where the player used the "backboard" to get it close from the left hand bunker, not unlike Tiger's chip-in. No aces this year, but there were a lot more birdies Sunday than any other day of the week.
 
Does anyone remember or know of another golfer on Sunday at the Masters that made that same chip shot (or very very close to it, not the exact percise spot but general area)?
 
Actually the incident I was thinking of was Palmer in the 60s. It was the beginning of what powered him on to win that day.
 
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