I finally get the "Manzella" pivot...and an axis tilt question

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I've been posting some long-winded posts (sorry) about my progress since beginning to read here and take lessons (I've had two) with Brian. I hope someone on the same journey finds something I say helpful.

I am one of those "80 shooters trying to become scratch" cases that Brian says are "hard." No doubt about that.

In my second lesson Brian spent most of the time trying to get me to have a less-centered, more "Manzella-like" pivot (I use that term to describe the sort of standard pivot he describes in his pivot article, I understand that he teaches different pivots according to needs). This has been extremely hard for me to do. I practiced it but felt like I was posing and just couldn't play from the new position.

This weekend I finally figured out my deep divots, tendency to chicken wing the left arm some, pulling and even, I think, flipping on long shots was in part because I didn't have enough tilt and didn't have my hips and shoulders nearly open enough at impact. I didn't have room to hit the ball.

I went to the range this weekend and tried to exaggerate tilt and open hips and all of a sudden my pivot changed because there was no way to get to the tilt and openness I wanted from the old centered (reverse pivot) pivot. All of a sudden, because my end goal was different, the pivot was changed. Once my goal was different, the place I felt I had to get to on my backswing was totally different. Much flatter shoulder turn. Head more over right foot, right hip turned more in the barrel. More underhanded throwing feeling on the downswing. I think the reason I couldn't get the pivot change was that I didn't know where my pivot was throwing. Brian was giving me a pivot to throw to third base but I kept trying to throw to second base. I couldn't change my pivot until I realized I was supposed to be throwing to third base, so to speak. Once I knew where I was throwing to with tilt, getting rid of my "tripod" wasn't that hard.

I played Saturday afternoon and hit the ball straighter than I have hit it in a long, long time with no pulls after the first three holes. I even hit one power fade off the tee with really excellent distance -- my shocked playing companions who have been used to seeing my baby pull hook, straight pull, and pull hook for years asked how the heck that happened. I capped it off by hitting a 6-iron on a par three on a rope about 20 yards longer than normal, over the green into the water. Funny how much better that feels than to chunk one up to the front edge of the green and make a bogey.

Ok, a couple axis tilt questions - my back felt a little more tender than usual after a day on the range and then course working on accentuating the tilt and turn. Will the tilt cause more back issues? Anything to do to avoid this? Also, I felt like I was not being drawn up into follow-through and finish but got stuck a little in that tilt through finish. Anything to work on there?

Thanks again to everyone here and Brian for all the help.

The archives here are tremendously valuable. I think it was a post by Jim Kobylinski about impact and tilt and maybe flipping that got me thinking about the lack of room at impact.

I can't wait for the Friends video!
 
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Jim Kobylinski

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Ok, a couple axis tilt questions - my back felt a little more tender than usual after a day on the range and then course working on accentuating the tilt and turn. Will the tilt cause more back issues?

It can, the golf swing (in any shape or form) really isn't that good on the body in general.

Anything to do to avoid this?

Stretching and making sure that you are creating axis tilt by getting the tailbone ahead of your neckbone. Some people just try and drop their upper body to the right and that can cause pain.

Also, I felt like I was not being drawn up into follow-through and finish but got stuck a little in that tilt through finish. Anything to work on there?
Try not to turn so flat on the backswing. Turn too flat and you'll be stuck overthere, turn too steep and you'll be tri-podding it. Try to feel like the weight doesn't move too far outside your right foot.

Thanks again to everyone here and Brian for all the help.

The archives here are tremendously valuable. I think it was a post by Jim Kobylinski about impact and tilt and maybe flipping that got me thinking about the lack of room at impact.

I do my best :)
 
Might be using different muscles you haven't used (discovered). If you got your swing together, grab a video camera and let it roll! I have used the a version of the stack n tilt (yes used.....its winter right now!), after a few rounds under the belt, all is good. Final test came at Big Fish GC in WI, combined with twist takeaway - separating the hands after impact......+4 on back tees in 50 degree weather with wind. Hey its a tough course.....Pete Dye designed it!

Yes the archives here are awesome, I copy and convert tips onto a word document or pdf and sneek them to work. Doesnt count against my internet time!
 
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With regards to the soreness:

In my lesson with Brian, he too had to teach me the axis tilt I had lost working with a guy who focused on a more "centered" pivot. When we worked on it at first it felt almost painful; a sensation I had never felt before on the left side of my back was there. While my dad was concerned, I kept working on it. It went away on its own and I think that it was mainly a muscle that hadn't been stretched in a LONG time until Brian made me pivot correctly.
 
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