I'm lost...who is this guy??

[Ryan Smither]

???????
Who are you?
If you're going to have such strong opinions atleast put your credentials where your mouth is.
Maybe I missed a thread or something, but it would be good for all of us to know who you are and what you do.

 

[glfnaz]

As far as I know he's a golfer who lives in Green Valley AZ and has done a lot of research on the golf swing. He is writing a book that he believes will advance golf instruction. I've never met him, but Laville met him and they hit balls together May 2003.
Alford does boast of being able to hit the ball well and know a multitude of swing models.
He has a bad back and a few bad joints that cause him pain...so he doesn't play very much.
I'd suggest that Martee....who lives probably withing 5 miles of Alford meet and play with him. They both live in the same small Az town. Martee is a GSEB and could probably give a fine report.

 

[Foulds]

Look what I found...

 

[Triad]

As a past denzien of many different golf boards I would point out that if you Google Rec.Sport.Golf for dlanaz you will find much about Mr. Alford. With no offense to Mr Alford intended, I would say that he appears to be someone who has a proven capability of impersonating several different 'famous' golf swings but has never actually been proven effective as a real ball striker or golfer. Perhaps dlvaville saw otherwise in May.

Mr. Alford has,in the past, sadly to say, suffered from many physical ailments which preclude him from actually hitting balls. He has suffered from a bad back, knees and now tendonitis. Despite this he continues to be able to swing on film without a golfball.

Mr. Alford has been working on the definitive book on the golf swing for, at least, four years. I am not holding my breath waiting for it to be finished.

 

[Foulds]

Type his name on google and click on the 9th link from the top...

 

[David Alford]

Smithers, I have no golf credentials. HK, didn't have any golf credentials until his book came out. I have written one book, but it is not ready to be released. More will follow.

There have been several reports from golfers who came to see my golf striking in rec. sport golf. It really depends which model I am tinkering with. Some models work better than others. You have to have high pain tolerance to fool around like this for years and years. Pounding hundreds of thousands of balls and a lot more, is hard work. I put a lot of emphasis on optimalities rather than cataloging possibilities.

David Alford

 

[David Alford]

Triad, you're wrong. I have injuries, but I'm an ex polevaulter and I'm strong. When I'm in Green Valley, I hit balls at the local range and anyone can come see me.

There was a theory on rec.sport.golf for several yrs. that I had never played (ask Bruce Lietzke, we were on the golf team together)and can only swish at air. I'm sure you can pull up posts by someone who had a theory about me during this time. Fact is, no one knew. It parallels what is happening here.

But all of that came to a halt when people visited, and my critics became my friends.

David Alford

 

[Triad]

dlanaz,

I do not doubt that you are a 'nice guy', so my comments were not meant as a personal attack in any way. You have always been a very civil poster and I applaud that.

I also do not doubt that you can hit golf balls, I only said that (to the best of my knowledge)it has never been seen or commented on. I am happy to be proven incorrect on this point. I can only truthfully say that I have in fact only seen clips of you swinging at air and they are very lovely swings.

My question has always been whether you actually have any transferable understanding of the golfswing or are merely a very good athlete with an innate ability to mimic famous swings. The fact that your book is still 'in process' after all this time would imply that either: 1) you are an extremely busy man 2) you are an absolute perfectionist or 3) you are still formulating your thoughts on the swing.

It might be interesting to the group if you posted a couple of key points from your book so we could all benefit from your years of work. I am sure that it would also benefit subsequent sales.

 

[David Alford]

Re: my book, I've been working on it a lot longer than 4 yrs. It's fifteen and counting. I've gone the last ten yrs. w/o playing a single round of golf, dedicating my self entirely to the golf swing.

I play guitar and spent 25 yrs. on a single composition/piece (the Soleares) unitl I got it right so I could go on to "song" #2.

I have resolve to the end, whatever effort it takes to get it right. Compare that to people who write golf books motivated only to make money or to be a "guru".

No prepress excerpts. Can you imagine if HK had released a few paragrahs from TGM? Release date is at least a year out, possibly two. Keep in mind I am doing everyting myself. E.g. graphics and typesetting/layout/video production.

David Alford

 

[Triad]

I'm sorry David, but I find your response a bit of a cop-out. If after 15 years of work your book is only one year away from publication then surely you have some amount of information you could share with us.

For instance, Homer wrote of what he viewed as Essentials and Imperatives. Do you have any particular elements of the swing that you view as essential or imperative to any sound golfswing. What are the 'handful of things' that one must master in the golfswing. This is of partciluar interest to me since, according to you, Mr. Kelly did not fully grasp them.

I hope you don't mind if I quote you.

From: DLANAZ (dlanaz@aol.com)
Subject: Re: TGM: The Golfing Idiot reads the Bible
View: Complete Thread (25 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Date: 1998/11/17


Homer Kelly was a lousy ball striker by people I've spoken with that saw him.

Some of his students such as Mac O'Grady have been excellent ballstrikers, but unless a teacher is elderly or disabled he should be able to walk the talk. Apparently Mr. Kelly could not.

The rebuttal that he was an engineer/scientist who just figured everything out, but never perfected technique does not hold. If you have true and accurate understanding of the handful of things you need to perfect, you can develop your technique/implementation in rapid order - at least if you've got a few years of swinging a golf club under your belt. Maybe not to the level you will shoot 59 everytime out, but to the extent that you do become a good to
excellent ball striker.

The golf swing is never as easy as pie, but certainly manageable at a high level if done correctly. However, there are about a million traps to avoid in the learning process, and therein lies the difficulty. Few transverse such a minefield entirely, and that even includes the playing pros for the most part.

On the other hand, perhaps 99% of playing amateurs believe it is a talent thing, a matter of eye-hand coordination, and in this they err and err greatly.

My personal view is the more interesting intellectual battle for the years ahead will be between Hogan's method and Moe Norman's. But good luck in deciphering what these two individuals REALLY did - a far challenge greater than deciphering TGM, but also with more rewards (if, IF you succeed!) ...

David Alford

 

[David Alford]

Triad, in fact I posted a report on my ball striking by a friend of David Laville's on the Golf Swing and Sequences forum. It was up for a few days until Brian pulled it because he said it was off topic. Let me give you the brief version.

Coryville Alan wrote:

<You proved you were real. You swung like Hogan and hit the ball straight.>

There were other reports on rec.sport.golf on my ball striking.

Greg (dene@ipns.com) can send you his I would think. This matter has been put to rest. It was a big deal at the time because I submitted those swing clips swinging in my driveaway and since I wasn't hitting a ball, my critics pounced on that. Forgetting, everyone said a backyard swing clip would suffice. There WAS agreement this would be fine.I did what they asked and then as time went by other people jumped in and said "ya, looks great but he's not even hitting a golf ball, so what does it prove?"

What you didn't see was the full version of the original tape that was a half hr. long showing me hitting balls and making over a hundred swings with side by comparisons to Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, etc. incl. slow motion footage.

My question, has HK ever been held to the same standard?

I posted the topic "Homer Kelley Swing Sequences?" on the Golf Swing and Sequences forum and it was pulled. Brian said he would answer my question if any sequences are available of HK and so far he has not.

David Alford

 

[David Alford]

Triad, you can goad me all you want, most authors won't "spill the beans" until they are ready on their time, not your time or some one clamoring for a peak.

There are no huge secrets, but that doesn't mean a book can't be important.

Other wise you could just write: flat left wrist, sustain the lag and compression line. That's about it. The End.

Note to Greg: I apologize for putting your name out there. Note to the curious. Pls. don't bug him unless you absolutely must find out. He's just going to say he met me several times and I hit solid and straight.
Greg is a great guy w/talent and a serious student of the golf swing.

gotta' go...

David Alford

 

[Brian Manzella]

I applaude your efforts to 'figure it out.'

At least that's what you SAY you are doing.

I was once an unpublished mess of ideas in my head, but now my work has been view by several THOUSANDS.

So far...the reviews are good.

I wish you success, but you behavior on this site has been silly-ness.

I have started some fires on the 'net myself, but ALWAYS with substance...and that substance FIXED people...hundreds sent me emails from my internet fights THANKing me for fixing their grips, slices, etc......

ALL BEFORE this very successful site.

Get a site like this yourself and FIX SOMEBODY!!! or FIX SOMEBODY on a site like this!

BUT stop T A L K I N G about how much you know.

It ain't bragging if you can back it up...

and...Like Don Villavaso, a fine teacher and great friend of mine told ME several 1000 times...

"If you can't put it in words that even a 10 year old can 'get' and apply...you don't know anything."

Put it in words somewhere David! You can be critical of Homer Kelley with some degree of believability if you had something SOMEWHERE anywhere to compare to his work.

Otherwise...go beat some more balls and give 25,000 lessons and then come back and debate.

 

[dene]

I'm Greg, dene@ipns.com. Let me try to give you all a fair assessment of David Lee Alford.

He's mid-50's...tall, lean athletic build. We corresponded as a regulars on RSG. At the time, there was some "debate" between Laville and him. I own a 2nd home in Green Valley and offered to meet/evaluate him at a local driving range, which he accepted along with dinner afterwards. Indeed David can crush a golf ball. He possesses a beautiful, flowing golf swing. Delayed hit personified. As he hit balls, he was able to emulate different people's swings, like Hogan, and discuss the differences. In essence, David is one of these rare natural athletes with a geek intellect. Some of what he said went right over me.

Laville and Alford met later....had a good meeting. I'll let DL speak for himself.

(I'm new to this forum....thoroughly enjoying the contents as it explains TGM quite well, especially w/pictures. Prior to this, I could only enjoy tidbits from Laville on RSG).

But back to Alford. He's honest.....very intense....wears big ugly-ass glasses.....analyzes things to death. Perhaps he's the bastard child of HK.

If Alford and BM debate, it will be enjoyable for all, assuming egos and flames are diminished.

 

[dene]

BrianMan's bud said...

"If you can't put it in words that even a 10 year old can 'get' and apply...you don't know anything."

Does this saying apply to HK and TGM?

-Greg

 

[dclaryjr]

quote:Originally posted by dene

(I'm new to this forum....thoroughly enjoying the contents as it explains TGM quite well, especially w/pictures.

Ditto. The only downside is that I'm staying up WAY past my normal bedtime reading all of Yoda's stuff on the TGM forum!

I placed my order for "The Book" tonite. Might as well jump in all the way!!

 

[Brian Manzella]

Homer siad it was the AI's job to explain.

That's what I do for a living.

This is just a good of a place to get answers as ANY other site.

All of the right people are members.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I accidentally deleated a post by worm...so sorry...please post it again.

 

[Worm]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Homer siad it was the AI's job to explain.

That's what I do for a living.

This is just a good of a place to get answers as ANY other site.

All of the right people are members.

Agreed, as long as you have a working proficiency in TGM and its terminology. Usually, it only takes a vague one sentence reply, followed by a dozen posts for clarification by the 10 year olds, to answer most questions.

 

[dene]

Originally posted by brianman

Homer siad it was the AI's job to explain.

That's what I do for a living.

Understood. DL often said the same thing in RSG. Wondering if a TGM guy has written an intepretive book of TGM. If so, who and where can I get a copy.

Thanks!

-Greg