Irvin Schloss
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He was a very well respected golf professional who falls into the category of not getting his due. He was well ahead of his time as were Homer Kelley, Paul Bertholy, Joe Norwood and Lashley (Red) Spiegle. He was great friends with the late Bill Strausbaugh. He also had a great amount of knowledge about club repair.
Langer, et al...
...you have reminded me of someone else who was "way ahead of his time." In western Pa there is a golf course called River Forest, not too far from Pittsburgh. The course was designed, built and operated by a fellow named Wynn Treadway, PGA. Wynn had some very strong ideas about how a golf course should be run, and since he owned this place, he ran it with an iron hand, and the regulars that played there loved him for it. What was Wynn's most important rule? PLAY FAST. In order to play fast, you had to have a working knowledge of the game, rules and etiquette, etc., and you had to be able to move the ball around the course with a fair amount of skill. Beginning golfers were not allowed to play there. Slow players were asked to return to the clubhouse because "someone left some money for them". Wynn would refund there money, tell them to leave, and only come back after learning how to play faster. Guys with long hair? No chance! Get a haircut first...then come back and we'll see if we can get you on that first tee. But the real reason for this post was to tell you about Wynn's teaching. If a beginner or inexperienced player came to him for lessons, they did not hit a golf ball for weeks. In fact, the first lessons were indoors, on the second floor of his clubhouse, in a large open room with no windows. The only thing in the room was a painted line on the floor, that continued up the walls on the sides. Wynn then had his student swing a golf club VERY SLOWLY that had a penlight attached to the shaft...in the dark. No golf balls could be hit until the student could demonstrate their proficiency to keep the light shining on the line, slowly learning to swing faster and faster and staying on plane. Now, Wynn was doing this BACK IN THE FIFTIES AND EARLY SIXTIES! He produced quite a few very solid players who would play good golf in a no nonsense manner. Sadly, this pioneer was murdered in his home by his own grandson ( a drug addict), who then committed suicide.
...you have reminded me of someone else who was "way ahead of his time." In western Pa there is a golf course called River Forest, not too far from Pittsburgh. The course was designed, built and operated by a fellow named Wynn Treadway, PGA. Wynn had some very strong ideas about how a golf course should be run, and since he owned this place, he ran it with an iron hand, and the regulars that played there loved him for it. What was Wynn's most important rule? PLAY FAST. In order to play fast, you had to have a working knowledge of the game, rules and etiquette, etc., and you had to be able to move the ball around the course with a fair amount of skill. Beginning golfers were not allowed to play there. Slow players were asked to return to the clubhouse because "someone left some money for them". Wynn would refund there money, tell them to leave, and only come back after learning how to play faster. Guys with long hair? No chance! Get a haircut first...then come back and we'll see if we can get you on that first tee. But the real reason for this post was to tell you about Wynn's teaching. If a beginner or inexperienced player came to him for lessons, they did not hit a golf ball for weeks. In fact, the first lessons were indoors, on the second floor of his clubhouse, in a large open room with no windows. The only thing in the room was a painted line on the floor, that continued up the walls on the sides. Wynn then had his student swing a golf club VERY SLOWLY that had a penlight attached to the shaft...in the dark. No golf balls could be hit until the student could demonstrate their proficiency to keep the light shining on the line, slowly learning to swing faster and faster and staying on plane. Now, Wynn was doing this BACK IN THE FIFTIES AND EARLY SIXTIES! He produced quite a few very solid players who would play good golf in a no nonsense manner. Sadly, this pioneer was murdered in his home by his own grandson ( a drug addict), who then committed suicide.
Schloss influenced many...
Very influential teacher of the '50s, '60s, and '70s. Aside from Bill Strausbaugh (mentioned above) he also influenced Carl Lohren ('One Move to Better Golf'). A big proponent of left side control in the golf swing. Prominently mentioned in Michael Bamberger's book 'To The Linksland'. Also, influenced the excellent British Teacher Bernard Cooke ('Golf: The Professional Approach'). In fact, Cooke's book was dedicated to Mr. Schloss' teaching. The only book to do so because he never got around to publishing his knowledge. A pioneer in golf club design. Used to give his lessons while seated on a tall stool.
Very influential teacher of the '50s, '60s, and '70s. Aside from Bill Strausbaugh (mentioned above) he also influenced Carl Lohren ('One Move to Better Golf'). A big proponent of left side control in the golf swing. Prominently mentioned in Michael Bamberger's book 'To The Linksland'. Also, influenced the excellent British Teacher Bernard Cooke ('Golf: The Professional Approach'). In fact, Cooke's book was dedicated to Mr. Schloss' teaching. The only book to do so because he never got around to publishing his knowledge. A pioneer in golf club design. Used to give his lessons while seated on a tall stool.
Glad you know about Bernard Cooke he was my teacher, but sadlly was not taken seriously by the PGA of UK.
I spent one month with Irv and learnt so much about the golf swing amd clubmaking.
The first PGA trade show was organized by Irv in the car park at his golf club, he invited all the reps to show there goods, i bet you did not know that Brian.
I spent one month with Irv and learnt so much about the golf swing amd clubmaking.
The first PGA trade show was organized by Irv in the car park at his golf club, he invited all the reps to show there goods, i bet you did not know that Brian.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Wow, that was an interesting story. I would have loved to meet a guy like that, but he had the "army type" mentality of doing it right!
OldGolfPro
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I am a retired Golf Professional from Ontario Canada. About 1970 Irv Schloss and Bill Strasbough were speakers at the Assistants training program on teaching. I got to talk with Irv Schloss about high speed cameras and eventually visited Him at His home in Florida, near Tampa and purchased a used Bolex 8mm camera and a hand crank viewer. It was a short lived experiment as Video came in about that time.
At that time I was working the winter months in Sarasota for Wynn Tredway. We were working on the hand action take away .. I was Wynn's 'Guinea Pig' with the flashlight. Most nights after the course was closed and the carts were on charge (my job) I would have supper with Wynn and His wife and daughter, and after supper we would spend hours working with a bent copper tube with a golf grip on one end and a flashlight attached at the other.
The big teaching method at that time was square to square... Irv and Bill were teaching 'closed to closed'. Wynn Tredway was also teaching a closed club face and so we worked on closing the club as we took it away.. the flashlight would shine on the wall and make a small 'e' when done correctly. Wynn was convinced that this was the way to teach beginners.. never let them hit a ball until they mastered the flashlight. It all worked well but as far as I know, never came to a marketable training aid.
One day Wynn came in to the pro shop most excited.. His first grandson had been born. Wynn took a brand new set of Titleist Irons off the display and said these are the first set of clubs for my new grandson. Who would have thought that such a tragic end would become of it.
I had not heard of Wynn's murder until coming across this post.. it saddens me to think of such a good man as Wynn being killed by His own grandson.. so sad.
At that time I was working the winter months in Sarasota for Wynn Tredway. We were working on the hand action take away .. I was Wynn's 'Guinea Pig' with the flashlight. Most nights after the course was closed and the carts were on charge (my job) I would have supper with Wynn and His wife and daughter, and after supper we would spend hours working with a bent copper tube with a golf grip on one end and a flashlight attached at the other.
The big teaching method at that time was square to square... Irv and Bill were teaching 'closed to closed'. Wynn Tredway was also teaching a closed club face and so we worked on closing the club as we took it away.. the flashlight would shine on the wall and make a small 'e' when done correctly. Wynn was convinced that this was the way to teach beginners.. never let them hit a ball until they mastered the flashlight. It all worked well but as far as I know, never came to a marketable training aid.
One day Wynn came in to the pro shop most excited.. His first grandson had been born. Wynn took a brand new set of Titleist Irons off the display and said these are the first set of clubs for my new grandson. Who would have thought that such a tragic end would become of it.
I had not heard of Wynn's murder until coming across this post.. it saddens me to think of such a good man as Wynn being killed by His own grandson.. so sad.
TROYNYGOLFER
New
I like his philosophy except when dealing with beginners. I assume there were some slow days. Why not encourage the beginners to play then? This treatment probably had several golfers quit the game.
OldGolfPro
New
Wynn was a good business man as well as a Golf Professional. He knew that speed of play was directly related to the number of rounds played each day, and that was related to the income bottom line. He wanted to keep play moving and spent a good deal of time 'ranging' the course to keep it going. To Him, the golf course was a place to play golf.. it was not a place to guzzle beer and fool around.
I only visited at River Forest once so I do not know how He handled juniors there, but at the Florida course where I worked, He encouraged juniors to play,.. One of the juniors who played and grew up on Sarasota Golf Club was Paul Azinger. (His Mother was the Ladies CC).
When I worked with Wynn was early 70's . He was pretty much spending all His time on the flashlight teaching method. His whole life was golf.
I only visited at River Forest once so I do not know how He handled juniors there, but at the Florida course where I worked, He encouraged juniors to play,.. One of the juniors who played and grew up on Sarasota Golf Club was Paul Azinger. (His Mother was the Ladies CC).
When I worked with Wynn was early 70's . He was pretty much spending all His time on the flashlight teaching method. His whole life was golf.
Richie3Jack
New
Preaching to the choir.
I worked at a golf club in Myrtle Beach. They would typically do about 250 golfers a day in-season. They would double tee. Anyway, when I got there I was only doing it as a part-time gig, helping in the pro shop...basically so I could get free golf and I had friends that worked there. They had decided that year that they were going to be diligent on the pace of play and had my friend...then the 1st assistant headed up the enforcement of the pace of play.
I wound up going from the pro shop to basically being the 'head ranger' because I was too good at it. We had a big policy and procedures in place to get the pace of play moving and once they gave me the authority to enforce it and would back me up...I really didn't care. I was getting paid for the entire day anyway...so if I got done by 2pm because of the pace of play moving fast...I was paid for the entire day. If the pace of play was slow, I may not leave until 8pm. Still the same pay for me, so I figured why deal with the aggravation?
I think I was making something like $5.50/hr at the time (it was just a gig to get some free golf) and at the end of the spring they gave me a raise to $10/hr because replay rates jumped to something ridiculous like 600%.
They then wanted me to stay and become full-time but by then I was leaving Myrtle and getting a 'real job.'
But what was crazy was about a year later they stopped doing that. Too afraid to upset some golfers, even though the bottom line was telling a different story.
Mr. Tredway was ahead of his time!
3JACK
dschultz6072
New
The only time I've ever been warned was when I played on a military course. Quite frankly I couldn't figure out why, but I guess they liked to do it to everyone to show them the course didn't tolerate dilly dallying. The marshall said if it landed in the clover rough just drop and take no penalty. Most scorecards tell you play quickly or get kicked out, but nobody has the cajones to tell you to pick it up or pack it up. Definitely something that needs to change on the munis.
birly-shirly
New
Played a course in Fife with a pal. Going to the 14th tee, we dropped our bags in the fairway to walk back to the tee. After we'd teed off, we must have broken stride to pick up our bags again because all of a sudden we were getting heckled by one of the locals for "being out for a Sunday stroll". Right then, we looked at our watches and realised that it had taken us all of an hour and 50mins to get halfway down the 14th. Stamp out slow play!
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