Issues with downswing pivot

[jewofgolf]

All, I'm somewhat versed in TGM and have purchased confessions of a former flipper and NHA 2.0 (recently).

About me - 0.0 index (low of +1.2 4-5 years ago just after college golf), great hands (a problem because they are basically stupid and want to flip - and do a great job until there is some pressure), and extremely technically minded. I'm a "feel" player, but what I really mean is I have great touch. At the root of it, I want to "feel" all the parts of my swing doing the technical things I am going for.

Anyway, here's my issue - no matter how hard I try over my ENTIRE golf career, on anything more than a half swing, I stop turning my hips and sort of jump up at it. I do realize that 14 years of making this mistake won't be cured instantly.

Any ideas on drills? My normal process for working on something is to start with small swings and work my way up. I have got to figure out a way to reprogram my lower body to trust the turn move. I practice with video and watch the video immediately after the swing. What a great half swing I have...and what an ugly mess my full swing is.

The big deal here is already "know" what I need to do. I already "feel" when I mess it up. I need some kind of method to retrain myself.

Thanks in advance!

 

[jewofgolf]

I just want to add one more point this - when I have played my best golf, I've stood wide open (30* open stance) allowing the hips to end up open at impact even though they are truly not turning any more open than the angle of my feet. I'm trying to avoid going back to that because at best, I was still relying on timing and a poor pivot.

 

[dbl]

Trying to be Brian, you have to take away the reward that you get right now with your goofy 2nd half hips. So what is the reward of the goofy hip action? Is it masking a closed or open clubface? Does it keep you from hitting the ground early/late? So get that part figured out, then "the instructor" will force you into a pretzel while the fault is exposed for what it is. Then fix that fault, and the goofy hips will be part of the past.

A scratch with goofy action is something to behold.

 

[jewofgolf]

I started thinking about this some more - I end up at impact with my head going backwards and my left arm bent. I do know one problem I have is too much "handle-dragging" - basically shoving the handle too much away from my body, like a person who puts the ball back in their stance on a chip shot.

Today I will try to let the hands just fall (drop the sugar onto the ball) instead of shaking the sugar. I'm thinking it needs to be a "passive" feeling, like I'm not going to hit the ball, but rather drop the club onto it with very little "handle-dragging".

I could be off on this thinking, but I will try it today. I'm very sure that the hips stopping their turn has to do with some other compensation, because I have at times gotten them to turn correctly and hit shots that were out of this world. Any thoughts on my situation Brian?

 

[jewofgolf]

So, just an update after today's practice - I watched Brian's Over-right side bend video and something made sense. I also moved forward with the "too much handle-pull" thought and combined them into one drill:

Take the club just past hip high, connect the right elbow into my side, and turn (keeping that arrow coming out of my left shoulder pointed inside the plane) through the ball. The hands responded correctly and I got some nice low fades.

I think my biggest issue is starting the handle right from the top underplane, pulling it further so, and having no choice but to extremely over-right side bend (cause the head to go backwards, arms to bend, and hands to flip).

If I can get the sequencing right (drop the elbow into my side) during my initial "step-down" move, then rotate through it, I can get this fixed.

 

[mgranato]

Try this...

Take normal address with 5 or 6 iron. Swing to the top (do everything slowly so you can see what's happening - posing speed). While leaving your hands as close to where they are at the top as you can, rotate your hips back to square. Now you've got hands high with square hips, you should feel a little stretch between the upper and lower. Now take your mind off the hips. Turn you attention now to the upper torso (which is still pretty close to the top of the backswing position). Take the torso down to where your chest is facing the ball or just short of there. This should leave the arms lagging a little behind. Now take your mind off the torso. Next take your arms and club into impact. From there, take stock of where everything is. Let us know what you see.

 

[hp12c]

I like this video good hip movement.

this one too is greal good too.

another gem!

no words needed.

So what do you see the hips/pelvis do from these vids?

 

[welshdentist]

My question would what what is jewofgolf's brain trying to compensate for to do what he does?

 

[jewofgolf]

In my work over the past few weeks I have discovered that it's a sequencing issue. I get "excited" and my arms get all charged up and I start pulling the club toward impact. What I don't do is let the club fall behind me then use my pivot to get it to impact. I try to stick my hands where they are supposed to go, but without the pivot driving the motion, the whole thing fails. I (for whatever reason) can't respond to my hands with my pivot. I'm probably way out of shape or just have bad habits ingrained. I'm starting to work hard on a proper pivot.

I'm at a point where I'm doing drills where I take it to the top, and literally drop the club behind me. I do it again and turn my body to let it get to the ball. If I start from a 2/3 backswing (without the rythm of getting to that spot), I can properly execute a pivot, drop my hands behind me and turn the whole thing through staying bent over. At impact, my hips are wide open, shoulders are open, and it's really a nice looking motion.

Now, slowly getting my hands to be "quiet" on actual full swings will take longer, but I'm getting there a little at a time.

I WISH there was a magic pill I could take to instantly DO with my body/hands/hips what I see in my head as correct, but unfortunately it just doesn't work that way!

 

[Brian Manzella]

JOG,

Answer these questions for me (this will help me, help you).....

1. Should the hips start the downswing and lead the parade through impact?

2. Should you try to get your hands to an "impact hand location" at impact?

3. What is the role in the torso in all of this? The arms?

 

[jewofgolf]

Brian, my answers are based on my understanding....

1) I feel like the hips turn and keep going until they run out of room. At that point impact should have just happened.

2) I think I should retain a flat left and bent right wrist, but I'm not clear if it's right or wrong to try to get to a spot.

3) I have always felt the arms and torso are sort of along for the ride, just holding the forces that get released through impact.

Thank you for helping!