It clicked... I think

[timwalsh300]

Hello everyone. On Monday morning I watched "Confessions of a Former Flipper."

Some background: I grew up playing baseball. I'm not a natural athlete, but I worked hard and understood my swing very well and I hit my share of homeruns. The first time swung a golf club I sliced the ball so badly that you would have thought I was joking. I swung it like a bat and just left the club face wide open. That's when I started flipping the club in an attempt to get square to the ball.

I flipped my way to bogey golf but then I stalled. I couldn't hit a downhill lie. I couldn't hit from a divot. A slice, hook, or chunk was always looming. A few weeks ago I got serious and finally took some video. I compared it to some Tour players and saw big problems (namely: what you guys call "Below Plane Syndrome" and extreme flipping). I made some progress but my flipping was persistent. Finally I found this site last weekend, read some of the forum posts, and ordered "Confessions."

And it just clicked for me. It seems that swinging a golf club is more like swinging a baseball bat than I ever thought. I had my epiphany when Brian talked about letting the right arm "shoot out," "getting as far away from impact as possible," and striking with the heel of the hand. The feeling is identical to hitting a baseball. Even the "Coke Machine drill" is very similar to a classic baseball drill for developing a "short swing." This has fundamentally changed the way I think about hitting a golf ball.

Let me share some pictures for now...

More to follow...

Tim

 

[fronesis]

I'd like to nominate this for best first post ever!

Welcome, Tim. And good stuff!!

 

[timwalsh300]

Some early results...

I've been able to take this concept to the course the last few days. I'm still fighting the urge to flip. When I do it I end up sticking my club in the ground and hitting my divot farther than the ball. The instant feedback is nice.

My ball striking with my irons has improved dramatically when I do it right. A few weeks ago I was hitting my 8-iron from 130 yards, but now I feel confident hitting it to a green from 150-160. I'm making shots with my 4 or 5-iron that used to require a fairway wood. The contact feels nice and soft. The course seems much smaller.

The big thing is that I feel like I can swing as hard as I want and direct 100% of that energy through the ball and right toward the target. Prior to this I was just hoping that everything would get in line with proper timing and make the ball go straight.

Unfortunately my old habits are going to be a little harder to break with my driver and fairway woods. It's much more difficult to swing hard and retain my lag with those clubs. I looked at some video of my driver yesterday and there was no improvement yet.

Now, a question: It seems to me that the point of having lag in the swing is two-fold...

1. It allows us to take the most direct path to the ball, strike with a descending blow, and keep the club face square until well after impact. This increases the chances of hitting the ball squarely on the sweet spot.

2. It allows us to store as much energy as possible until the moment of impact. Letting go of lag before impact means you have released your energy too early and wasted it.

Am I on the right track with this?

Tim

 

[savydan]

You're right with 1 and 2 above. Here is what you may be having a slight issue with:

You don't retain the lag - the lag is retained.

You don't actively lock your wrists trying to hold lag for lag's sake.

Your wrists are "inert" so your pivot and arm motion produce lag through your "non-leveraged" wrists. See the difference?

 

[timwalsh300]

You don't retain the lag - the lag is retained.

You don't actively lock your wrists trying to hold lag for lag's sake.

Your wrists are "inert" so your pivot and arm motion produce lag through your "non-leveraged" wrists. See the difference?

Right, I understand. The lag just happens as a result of the right arm shooting out.

I meant to say that my issue with the bigger clubs is psychological.

When I'm swinging hard, and I feel that big heavy club head, the urge to do something with my wrists becomes more difficult to resist - like I'm just not trusting, deep down, that I will actually get the club face square unless I flip.

Tim

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

tim...make driver swings with 50% effort where it feels like you delay the club a bunch! Build up some confidence that the club will square up even with that much delay and such a long club. You may have to use some twistaway at first. Then when you realize it will square up go back up to full swings.

 

[timwalsh300]

The stuff I posted this morning was from Monday and Tuesday (I was just waiting for my account to be activated). So here is an update with pictures/video from tonight...

As I talked about in my first post, my baseball swing has been my inspiration. I keep the bat glued to my shoulder, very relaxed, and then sort of rotate and throw my shoulder, releasing the barrel of the bat on a direct path toward the ball. You can see what I'm describing here...

This seems to jive perfectly with everything Brian talked about in "Confessions." So I'm trying to take that feel and implement it in my golf swing. Here is a video of me swinging my 7-iron like this...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC6cFIXQ6N4&feature=channel_page[/media]

Now with my driver...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1knBiOww2Q&feature=channel[/media]

I just can't get over seeing myself in some of these positions.

Any comments will be appreciated.

EDIT: By the way, if you look on my Youtube channel you can also see the video of me swinging on May 21... ugly.

Tim

 

[dbl]

I love this thread and what you've been able to do so far. Excellent!

 

[Richie3Jack]

To me, the big thing is that you're learning feel from mechanics. You are doing a good job with the mechanics, and now you have created a feel for yourself so you can repeat those mechanics over and over. For you, you just think 'baseball swing' or something to that effect and you can repeat it.

For me, I think of using a 'palm heel strike' with my right hand into the ball with the max pressure being at impact. Again, a subjective feel that works for me...may not work for you.

Great job. I'd work on the right foot, particularly on the downswing to help provide some more power and consistency.





3JACK

 

[LiftOff]

I'd work on the right foot, particularly on the downswing to help provide some more power and consistency. 3JACK

Richie: Could you be more specific, what do you suggest he do with his right foot?

Thanks,

 

[timwalsh300]

I'd work on the right foot, particularly on the downswing to help provide some more power and consistency.

Do you mean that I should try to keep it down? I think I remember Brian saying something about that somewhere...

What exactly could that do for me?

I've been looking at Jamie Sadlowski whose right foot comes completely off the ground and gets pulled forward:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMxNj8X3O5g&feature=channel[/media]

What do you think about my left foot ending up pointed at the target? This has always bugged me. Granted, I'm not wearing spikes in those videos. If I don't turn my foot like that it just feels like a ton of torque on my left leg.

EDIT: Watching that video again I see that Sadlowski's left foot actually starts pointing at the target as well. Interesting.

Tim

 

[fronesis]

You've clearly done some amazing work, very quickly. And the impact alignment are really impressive.

I think you could use your pivot more, make it more dynamic. The problem with your right foot isn't the mere fact that it comes off the ground. The problem is that YOU seem to be LIFTING it off the ground early in the downswing, rather than letting the power of your pivot PULL it off the ground. I think you could use a bit more hip turn both back and through, and this might help you to quiet the feet just a bit.

 

[Richie3Jack]

IMO it's alright for the right heel to come up off the ground at impact although I think it's preferable to have the right heel on the ground at impact. Either way, the big key is *why* does the heel come up off the ground (if it does).

I believe that if the heel comes up off the ground, it needs to do so because it was pulled off the ground from the momentum of the golf swing. If it has been lifted off the ground by the golfer getting the weight up on the toes, that's problematic. If you look at the overwhelming majority of great golfers, they have the heel 'pulled' not 'lifted' and at impact they have the weight more on the ball of the foot or the side of the ball of the foot if that heel is off the ground.

Also note when you look at the right foot at most great golfers the right heel is leading closer to the target than the right toes. You have the toes closer to the target than the heel.

Usually the great golfers who do have the weight up on the toes of the right foot at impact have what's called a 'circular hand delivery path' and they get the weight up on the toes so they won't hit 3 feet behind the ball (and even these circular delivery path golfers don't all have the weight up on their toes). But you do not have a circular delivery path.

I've seen getting the footwork down not only greatly help myself but quite a few other golfers as well. I really love how much your swing has improved and I think getting the footwork down, which really isn't that hard to accomplish, would help you out a lot.




3JACK

 

[curtisj76]

My right foot stays down a lot more now than it used to and my ball striking has improved tremendously. I got pretty WILD when that sucker game off early. I think I was trying to create power from almost every inch of my body and was doing it totally wrong, just had NO idea.

 

[Richie3Jack]

My right foot stays down a lot more now than it used to and my ball striking has improved tremendously. I got pretty WILD when that sucker game off early. I think I was trying to create power from almost every inch of my body and was doing it totally wrong, just had NO idea.

This also worked for me tremendously. I actually would do the Sam Snead drill of hitting balls without any shoes on and my toes up in the air. I got some funny looks at first but since I was striking it far better than anybody on the range (and doing it with no shoes on), people started to ask me about it. Rhythm and balance just about go hand in hand for me.



3JACK

 

[timwalsh300]

I played a few holes last night and did not hit the ball very well at all. I was hitting a lot of weak slices, especially with my driver, and not really taking a divot with my irons.

After watching some more video and reflecting on the cues (swing thoughts) that I was working with, I believe I know why. In response to the problems I was having with my driver, losing my lag too early, I focused very hard on keeping my right arm loaded (elbow bent) and the shaft up near my right shoulder while rotating. But I wasn't thinking at all about punching ("palm-heel strike") through impact with my right arm. I was just kind of hoping that it would happen as a result of my shoulder rotation.

3Jack, I think the "palm-heel strike into the ball" cue that you use, and I was using a couple days ago, is going to be my primary swing thought from now on.

Tim

 

[Richie3Jack]

3Jack, I think the "palm-heel strike into the ball" cue that you use, and I was using a couple days ago, is going to be my primary swing thought from now on.

Tim

I hope it works for you. Although I'd like to see you get the footwork down and I'll explain why.

Take your stance but without a golf club. Now, get up on both of your tippy toes. Next, try to pivot back and pivot thru.

When you do this, up on both of your tippy toes, you should notice a couple of things. One, it's difficult to balance yourself so your spine angle rises in order to keep your balance. Secondly, it's pretty darn hard to keep those hips pivoting when you are up on both of your tippy toes.

Now, I know that you're only up on the toes of your right foot, but the same type of things tend to happen. Spine angle rises, pivot stalls, you get 'faux axis tilt' because your head will now move backwards in the downswing (if it moves backwards, you want that to happen in the backswing) instead of your spine tilting and that right knee 'kicks out' towards the ball instead of 'kicking in' towards the left leg. In other words, this really screws with the geometry of your golf swing.

Now, take that stance without a club again and keep the weight in the middle of the arches of your feet. Feel like the arches of your feet are like suction cups to the ground. Now, pivot back and thru.

You should be much more balance, no raising of the spine angle and it's much easier to pivot those hips back and through.

So if your hips are not pivoting, the 'palm heel strike' probably will not work that great. Plus, the 'palm heel strike' is only one way or one feel of doing it. You may find that if you get the footwork down better that there's a different and better way that you can get rid of the flip. But, keep on pressing, you're really not that far away.




3JACK