JACK VS. TIGER

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b90jos

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I was going to post stats of each and compare... But well.. can't find any stats on jack besides wins. Im tired of people saying "todays equipment". It goes with the argument...of.. Michael Jordan vs. Kobe vs. Oscar Roberson vs. Lebron James... Obviously times have changed and athletes today training differs from a 1960's athlete and todays athletes. Ok. Jack was a better driver..i'll admit that.. but Tiger is the better player.. and when/if tiger surpasses him it will be hard to argue.
 
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natep

natep

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I agree that it's difficult to compare basketball players of different eras. It's even harder to compare golfers because of equipment changes. Titanium, graphite, and the new balls are very different from what was used in the past. At least in basketball the ball, the rim, etc. haven't changed much.
 
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b90jos

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I just wish I could find stats on jack..but I guess they didn't have.. GIR, Fairways hit, average driving distance... most is hear say.. and honestly if i don't ever see facts then I can't believe it.. I think some things about him are just alittle far fetched. But can't deny the wins... Like they say Lee Trevino hit EVERY fairway...sure..sure he did.
 
natep

natep

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I never got to see Jack in his prime so it's hard to know how good he was.

Although Tiger's run in 2000 is probably the best run ever, I read somewhere recently that Johnny Miller had a run sometime in the 70's that was a contender. Sadly, I've never seen any of that footage either.
 
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niblick1

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Jack had the advantage of playing in the pre-method-teacher and pre-line drawing program era when your coach just reminded you of what made your swing great. How many method teachers did arnie have to fight off on the range after a round? The off-season lessons for Jack were reminding him of what he used to do, not some parallel-plane theorist or some other method from pseudo-scientists. Was there some doofus who wanted to tell Sam Snead to step on his left foot in his backswing?

The courses THEN were 10x easier. That makes up considerably for the huge advances in technology in the past 30 years. Bomb-and-gouge was even easier for Jack than Tiger.

Until Tiger lost some of his nerve in the last year or two, he made Jack look like a 5-handicapper from 100 yards into the green. But the courses were different then.

Best driver, no contest.

Tough to say which one you'd most want to make the 10-footer if your life depended on it, though -- close call. Best pressure putters ever - tie?

Best two-iron -- Tiger no. 1, Jack no. 2?

Number of majors Tiger would have won by now if he had just met a teacher who just tweaked his '97 swing? 22-25? Number of majors Jack would have won with Tiger's short game techniques? 25 - 30? The arguments are endless.

The issue is whether Tiger passes jack on the major list, or not. The argument-ending result.
 
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trickyric67

trickyric67

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wow,
you people are either way to young or your memories are way to old. I grew up watching Nicklaus stare down the competition and not only did he win 18 Majors but he came in second 20 times also. Jack was so dominant His first profesional victory was the US open and he had to take on the best at the time and the most beloved golfer ever in Arnold Palmer and fight off Trevino, Watson, Floyd,Irwin and Seve to name just a few. Tiger had the best run in history but Nicklaus had the career that lasted a lifetime and raised a great family doing while doing it.
As far as stats, you can bet that Jack was an amazing clutch putter and hit more greens that anyone who ever played. Nobody ever talks about Jacks short game because he never seemed to need one. so how good did he have to be if you can't ever remember him making an amazing sand shot or pitch to win? That is how good he was!
One more thing, as for courses being easier you couldn't be more wrong! the rough was thicker the greens were bumpy and and the fairways were inconsistant at best. todays courses are manicured to the point of rediculousness for the pro's to the point that Jack had to change the rakes at the memorial just to make it a little more like the old days in the bunkers.
as for the 2 iron thing, well Jacks 1 iron at Pebble to win the Open was pretty special in my book.
 
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chipingguru

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I got a stat for you regarding Mr. Nicklaus. 73 top ten finishes in majors.

Start this year, finish in the top ten in every major, and catch him in 2029.

But as far as driving, we can't bring young jack back, but we could let Tiger hit Jack's 1963 driver and ball and get a good idea. If he could keep it on the course that is.
 
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niblick1

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trickyric67 said:
wow,
you people are either way to young or your memories are way to old. I grew up watching Nicklaus stare down the competition and not only did he win 18 Majors but he came in second 20 times also. Jack was so dominant His first profesional victory was the US open and he had to take on the best at the time and the most beloved golfer ever in Arnold Palmer and fight off Trevino, Watson, Floyd,Irwin and Seve to name just a few. Tiger had the best run in history but Nicklaus had the career that lasted a lifetime and raised a great family doing while doing it.
As far as stats, you can bet that Jack was an amazing clutch putter and hit more greens that anyone who ever played. Nobody ever talks about Jacks short game because he never seemed to need one. so how good did he have to be if you can't ever remember him making an amazing sand shot or pitch to win? That is how good he was!
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Hey I'm trying to agree with you! At this point, Jack still the best.

But the refinement in short game technique is the result of course changes, but even given that Tiger at his best out of a bunker, off a tight lie 30-yards out, out of the deep rough green-side -- makes Jack look like an amateur. But so would Steve Stricker.

It's not a coincidence that trevino's short game (not putting!) stole a few tournaments from Nicklaus.
 
trickyric67

trickyric67

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I am a huge Jack fan but I have to say that Seve had the magic back in the late 70's in the short game and Seve had a similiar problem to tiger in that he drove it all over the map. I would take Jacks consistancy any day.
but hey, i idolized the man.
 
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b90jos

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Jack was the first of his kind to come along into the golf world.. thats why he was idolized so much..then some good golfers have came and gone..but then came tiger..who completely raised the bar. C'mon tiger was so good they "tiger proofed" courses.. lol..or atleast they say. AND! Everyone loved arnie..but I swear EVERYONE LOVED Phil Mickleson.
 
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ej20

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I would have loved to have seen Jack cope with going from his across the line swing to Hogan's laid off swing like Tiger did.

People here keep saying Tiger drives it all over the map.Tiger's swing right now does not resemble the swing he grew up with.If any other touring pro did what he has they would be back in the pro shop giving lessons to little old ladies and that would probably include Nicklaus.
 
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b90jos

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ej20 said:
I would have loved to have seen Jack cope with going from his across the line swing to Hogan's laid off swing like Tiger did.

People here keep saying Tiger drives it all over the map.Tiger's swing right now does not resemble the swing he grew up with.If any other touring pro did what he has they would be back in the pro shop giving lessons to little old ladies and that would probably include Nicklaus.
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Agreed
 
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chipingguru

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Jack had enough sense not to change his swing much. Why is big changes the measure of a good golf?

Id like to see Tiger deal with Palmer, Trevino, Watson, in their prime.
 
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ej20

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Jack was luck he did not have swing gurus around in his day.Golf is really the only game where instructors are more well known than the players.

I keep hearing the argument about how there were greater champions around in Jack's era than now.The depth of competion was not nearly as great as it is now and you can argue that Palmer,Trevino,Watson would have far fewer majors if they were playing today.The majors won would be spread over a larger number of players.

Was it something in the water back in thoise days that produced greater number of HOF players?
 
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Bigwill

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chipingguru said:
Jack had enough sense not to change his swing much. Why is big changes the measure of a good golf?

Id like to see Tiger deal with Palmer, Trevino, Watson, in their prime.
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Jack also worked the ball predominantly one way or the other, as did Norman (another long and straight driver). I think that when you create as much speed as Tiger, Norman, and Nicklaus, your margin for error is very small. I would think that moving the ball one way off the tee would help Tiger to be a little more accurate off the tee.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
You are mistaken, Sir.

b90jos,

You never saw Jack Nicklaus play in person right.

Whoa.

I saw him play at least 300 holes in competition and hit maybe 1000 practice balls.

I have seen Tiger live since he was 15. At least as much as Jack.

Jack Nicklaus ain't no joke.

He was massively long, and hit it 30% higher than his rivals.

Like I have said before, Tiger playing his best would beat Hogan, Jack, and anyone else because his short game is other-worldly.

But....

Jack was HATED for at least the first 8 years of his career. He was cursed, spit at, you name it. You are lost on his was loved like John Daly because he was long.

No chance. He was DESPISED.

He slimed down, grew his hair, and eventually all the Palmer fans like my dad started saying, "Damn Big Jack is good."

Here is my all time — I saw them in person — ALL-STAR team (plus where Jack and Tiger would rank)

Longest Driver - 1. John Daly, 2. Dustin Johnson, tie 3. Jack & Tiger
Straightest Driver - 1. Calvin Peete (Nickalus way higher up the list than Tiger)
Overall Driving - 1. Jack Nicklaus (Tiger in the top 5)

Fairway Woods - 1. Hale Irwin, 2. Sergio Garcia, 3.David Toms (Nicklaus slightly better than Woods)

Long Irons - tie 1. Jack & Tiger, 3. Colin Montgomerie

Middle Irons - 1. Johnny Miller, 2. David Toms, 3. Jack Nicklaus (Tiger probably in the top 10)

Short Irons - 1. Lee Trevino, 2. Phil Mickelson, 3.Tiger (Nicklaus in the top 25, better with the 8 & 9 than the wedges)

Short Game - 1. Tiger (Jack is not in the top 100), 2. Ben Crenshaw, 3. Lee Trevino, 4. Bernard Langer

Putting - 1. Tiger (then everyone else way back, but Jack in the top 5)
 
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