Rick Dandy
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Have you ever been asked to leave a tournament by a junior golfer when they are clearly choking?
Junior Golf Choke
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Rick Dandy
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What happened to the go for broke Arnie Palmer?
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You need to be at a high school for a couple days to see how this generation of teenagers--not just junior golfers--is completely controlled by what you just stated. It is a problem with general society.
WoodbridgeGolf37
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High School Golf Experiences
...I was lucky enough to have my Dad follow me around for all of my matches in high school.
I'm a bit hot-headed by nature and would often vent to him as he observed from the adjacent fairways. I never asked him to leave a match I was playing-in, but sometimes I did feel added pressure. Subconciously I knew he was very emotionally (and financially) invested in my golf development and I didn't want to let him down...
My team played match play events against only one other school per event, so my catastrophes were really non-events by the next tee.
I really dogged it a few times in stroke play events over the summers, but my Dad wasn't able to watch those. Would like to think I would have reacted differently if he had followed, but can't guarantee it. Competition makes people do crazy things sometimes.
...I was lucky enough to have my Dad follow me around for all of my matches in high school.
I'm a bit hot-headed by nature and would often vent to him as he observed from the adjacent fairways. I never asked him to leave a match I was playing-in, but sometimes I did feel added pressure. Subconciously I knew he was very emotionally (and financially) invested in my golf development and I didn't want to let him down...
My team played match play events against only one other school per event, so my catastrophes were really non-events by the next tee.
I really dogged it a few times in stroke play events over the summers, but my Dad wasn't able to watch those. Would like to think I would have reacted differently if he had followed, but can't guarantee it. Competition makes people do crazy things sometimes.
i think champions or the state of mind of being a champion is made, not born; therefore, for most people, especially juniors, parents and teachers need to be more understanding, tolerant and patient. further, they need to learn to help the juniors in the constructive manner that is acceptable to the juniors. this is a game where 99.99% of things we do can be considered wrong in someone's eyes.
we all have our own comfort zone in which we function the best. not everyone is born a hogan, and to be honest, no one here really knows him personally. he probably had many moments of weaknesses that we do not know of.
what if this site mandate each person to put up a video of his swing and have brian and his team critique it and if by tomorrow we do not improve completely, then they or we call ourselves names?
if i see a junior behaving badly or weirdly during a tournament, esp under the eye of the parent, i wonder about the big picture: it is a sign that the parent/junior relationship needs work. it surfaced on the golf course because it started at home.
i strongly believe golf is a game where a junior can be destroyed easily. take it easy everyone.
we all have our own comfort zone in which we function the best. not everyone is born a hogan, and to be honest, no one here really knows him personally. he probably had many moments of weaknesses that we do not know of.
what if this site mandate each person to put up a video of his swing and have brian and his team critique it and if by tomorrow we do not improve completely, then they or we call ourselves names?
if i see a junior behaving badly or weirdly during a tournament, esp under the eye of the parent, i wonder about the big picture: it is a sign that the parent/junior relationship needs work. it surfaced on the golf course because it started at home.
i strongly believe golf is a game where a junior can be destroyed easily. take it easy everyone.
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Rick Dandy
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Thanks for the great input. I guess what I saw first hand surprised me. I believe there is something about the source that gives a tell. Now what? When is it time to go to the woodshed? Yeah, that family dynamic is a mystery to most. Still searching...
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Blitzpackage569
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I will disagree with that idea for the most part, I believe that most juniors do it in an effort to be more relaxed/ a last ditch effort to change the tide. As was stated above, at least in my mind, my Dad was very invested in the blossoming of my golf game being that he was my first teacher. For this reason, I believe many junior's feel added pressure to succeed and when in fact they do not, they may place the blame of there poor performance on the added pressure, rather then themselves.
I think the competitive mindset and the ability to take responsibility for ones performance is something which is learned and is part of the development of ones golf game. But hey just my two cents.....
Rick Dandy
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Junior thinks this outside thing will get me that. I'll ask him/her to "not watch me" and I'll play better. Sounds like sale of ownership of golf game.
Rick Dandy
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Mr. Hogan had some trouble at home. Maybe we all have at one time or another. I'm not really sure if he pussied out his game at a young age. I know that he lied his way onto a caddy yard and got caught. Perseverance and fortitude are certainly learned and valuable cornerstones. Sorry, but trouble at home or not, it seems that rationalizing a choke and accepting that a parent or friend should leave a golf course is a problem.
aaron_lohan
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Hogan wasn't even born a Hogan he developed his ability to concentrate and block out pressure over a period of 20 years. In his own words mentally he was no where near ready when he first went on tour, he had to learn how to stop nerves affecting him and overcome the pressure. He had a reputation for choking early in his career e.g. losing a playoff for the 1946 masters to Herman Keiser when he 3 putted the last hole, but he overcame it, this is a bigger test for these juniors than mastering swing mechanics.
aaron_lohan
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As parents you have to make your child feel confident that he can mistakes without repercussion, once the child stops becoming afraid of making mistakes paradoxically it frees him up to perform better.
birdie_man
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Is it gonna help the kid to put more pressure on him/her?
Or do you have something to teach?
birdie_man
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Do you think you fully understand what a "choke" is? (honest question)
Is it part of my snow-blower??? (honest sarcasm!
)Wtf.
Man golf is just golf, for starters.
Again...do you have something to teach the kid or is it just pressure pressure pressure and "sink or swim"? (sometimes one needs this...but with support in some form?)
Are you there to help or judge? Or prove your beliefs correct?
Not trying to be too crazy with this. But really...anything could be going on.
I will say I don't like to see a decrease in effort, even though I have tried the opposite route as well. (never really lasted long btw)
For the record I don't buy "you are trying too hard." I do believe you can try the wrong things. (intent vs. effort) Then again I could be wrong. But for now I try to never be 100% closed off on anything even if I am close to it.
Maybe something was more important than "finishing a round of golf"? Maybe something he didn't think he could tell you, for fear of getting jumped all over? Etc. etc. etc. There also is more than one way to go about most things. (it must suit the situation AND the person)
Do we need more information on the situation? (honest question for you and me as well)
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aaron_lohan
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The young of today get too much given to them at an early age so they feel entitled and spoilt, theres a school of thought in parenting that you should constantly praise children and tell them they're great this breeds narcissism. These children get a shock when they get into the real world and find out that there are many others who are more talented than them, this can and often does lead to disillusionment and depression.
ZAP
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Is there a best way to learn to deal with pressure? Who knows?
Calling it choking seems a little harsh. You never know the cause of the failure for sure.
I have been accused of choking in a couple of tournaments. I can say it was not due to pressure that I felt. I can tell you it was due to the pace of play and me getting bored and losing interest. This is something I need to work on myself.
I think it was Jones who said "never learned anything from a tournament that I won"
Calling it choking seems a little harsh. You never know the cause of the failure for sure.
I have been accused of choking in a couple of tournaments. I can say it was not due to pressure that I felt. I can tell you it was due to the pace of play and me getting bored and losing interest. This is something I need to work on myself.
I think it was Jones who said "never learned anything from a tournament that I won"
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when i said earlier about problem at home, i don't necessarily mean problems in other areas, although that can be the case as well. what i meant to say is that golf wise, between the junior and the family, there is certain unhealthy dynamic. i don't want to speculate too much but it is not hard to imagine. we have all seen some junior players playing worse with parents around. often, the more involved the parents are, "let's go johnny, you can do it"--when johnny clearly cannot do it--the more difficult it is for the junior to handle. LEAVE ME ALONE. to me, that is understandable.
i am not sure if that situation is really reflective of the junior being narcissistic or too soft or spoiled. the junior imo is being troubled by the situation and he wants an outlet, justified or not, away from the "helpful" eyes and voices and presence of the parents.
one way to constructively deal with this is to have the family talk about it afterwards. a discussion, not a one way lecture from the all mighty dad. what really bothered the junior? should the parents completely stay out for now and deal with the issue later on a case by case basis? did the parents do anything (gestures and voices of disapproval) during the round to make things worse? or is it really the junior blaming his parents for his golf problems, like with other things in life? some juniors want their parents around. some don't care either way. some want total independence. but some parents feel that darn it, i paid for the round so i am entitled to watch it, like it or not, son.
i have 2 kids playing competitive junior golf. the older one doesn't care because she says she does not even notice when i am there or not,,,she is that focused on her own game. the younger one loves mommy watching her play and can barely tolerate daddy following her. i don't blame her because she knows who is unconditionally kind and supportive
here is an assay on choke vs panic: gladwell dot com - the art of failure
i am not sure if that situation is really reflective of the junior being narcissistic or too soft or spoiled. the junior imo is being troubled by the situation and he wants an outlet, justified or not, away from the "helpful" eyes and voices and presence of the parents.
one way to constructively deal with this is to have the family talk about it afterwards. a discussion, not a one way lecture from the all mighty dad. what really bothered the junior? should the parents completely stay out for now and deal with the issue later on a case by case basis? did the parents do anything (gestures and voices of disapproval) during the round to make things worse? or is it really the junior blaming his parents for his golf problems, like with other things in life? some juniors want their parents around. some don't care either way. some want total independence. but some parents feel that darn it, i paid for the round so i am entitled to watch it, like it or not, son.
i have 2 kids playing competitive junior golf. the older one doesn't care because she says she does not even notice when i am there or not,,,she is that focused on her own game. the younger one loves mommy watching her play and can barely tolerate daddy following her. i don't blame her because she knows who is unconditionally kind and supportive
here is an assay on choke vs panic: gladwell dot com - the art of failure
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Rick Dandy
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Great THX!
I have found in dealing with young people in the classroom and on the playing field, as was stated earlier, is that they have trouble with what they perceive as "failure" because they were either never let to fail or they were always praised even when not succeeding. In either case, I have explained to the youngster that they have just experienced a lesson in character building. And character building is a process that takes some time. They have the choice how they react to their poor performance--they can either learn to persevere and move on to do better or they can give in to the pressure and live with their disappointment for the rest of their lives.
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Rick Dandy
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a choke by any other name...
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