kinetic chain and release FOR PRACTICAL PURPOSES

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Assuming this kinetic chain thing must occur in an optimum swing...

Should you actively try to break/snap/slow down your pivot?

If not, then how do you put an automatic braking system in place?

Is actively using your pivot all the way the way from the start to finish a bad swing thought?
 
Hey Tong,
I asked the same questions a couple of weeks ago and got exactly zero responses.

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10126

I think this is a very interesting subject and needs a lot of discussion. I've asked Mandrin a couple of questions in his threads on release and was told to wait for an answer and now he is threatening to quit discussing here. I hope that you have better luck than me.

With my limited intellect, I believe that we will discover that you can brake by slowing or we can brake by changing direction when the hands start moving up, in and forward.

Jim S.
 

Dariusz J.

New member
My vote goes to changing directions - i.e. difference between a curved line of the grip (left and up for righties) in close relation to a "supposed" linear motion.

Chers
 

hcw

New
My $0.02

Assuming this kinetic chain thing must occur in an optimum swing...

Should you actively try to break/snap/slow down your pivot?

If not, then how do you put an automatic braking system in place?

Is actively using your pivot all the way the way from the start to finish a bad swing thought?

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116565&postcount=31

...not trying to brake, just pivot and have the hands move along path from top to impact and beyond...
 
I just tilt.

Left shoulder UPPPPP...

...

I don't think you can actively use your pivot ALL the way to your finish (when your arms stop swinging) BTW. In an orthodox swing anyway.
 

Erik_K

New
Assuming this kinetic chain thing must occur in an optimum swing...

Should you actively try to break/snap/slow down your pivot?

If not, then how do you put an automatic braking system in place?

Is actively using your pivot all the way the way from the start to finish a bad swing thought?

I would NOT try to ACTIVELY slow down the pivot. I can't remember reading any article in any sport involving a throwing or striking motion where the athlete/author/scientist/golf teacher said the student should try and slow XYZ from happening.

If something slows down in the swing, it should happen naturally.

Erik
 
Actively trying to slow the pivot in an attempt to snap the kinetic chain would be disastrous.

Before you ask, I am absolutely no expert when it comes to the physics, etc. in a golf swing.

But I've played a lot of different sports growing up and can tell you from experience that thinking "anything" is a terrible idea.
 
I mean, I think it's great that we can measure and understand the "why" of the kinetic chain.......

but this is where I jump off the wagon because I don't think it's practical.
 
we hear people (such as Brian) saying things like, "you got to snap your chain better..."

HOW do you get them to do that?
 

Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Leo,

I think with the kinetic chain that there are a lot of set up and physiological aspects to it.

Your set up will dictate much of when and how your chain 'snaps'. For instance, left foot turned in=earlier braking point. Same with square hip line versus open hip line.

ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL!

Your body's limitations will dictate much of when and how. Tighter and weaker usually mean an earlier 'release' which might show up as a weaker shot pattern, steering, or recruitment of other sources.

Essentially the range of motion between your joints will dictate a lot.

Your mental limitations will affect the chain. Mentally tightening will cause a breakdown-probably a 'holding' of one segment.

I think the selected shot pattern has much to do with it. The person who feels like he rotates ALL the way to his finish position is still 'snapping', but just feels it less, and the overtaking takes place closer to impact, or relatively later, which leaves certain feelings, or perceptions in the phase of the swing that is pretty much a 'blur' to almost everyone.

Finally, I would disagree that you can't work on it. I think that punch shots, and half swings are good for working on the deceleration side of the sequence. This is a skill for the better players generally, and no need for any explanations.

Just some random thoughts...I do agree that it is an interesting subject, and look forward to the various viewpoints.

Damon
 
Actively trying to slow the pivot in an attempt to snap the kinetic chain would be disastrous.
I now even think that I understand why this is the case from physics point of view. Probably not completely, but in principle.
From the point of view of applying it, I don't think if it makes any difference if you know the physics behind it or not. You just need to know or believe it.
 
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I don't think if it makes any difference if you know the physics behind it or not. You just need to know or believe it.

Agreed.

I'll have more on this thread later as I'm a little pushed for time. However, I've been thinking about this on and off for a few days and feel like the kinetic chain is a result of other components, not a source.

Example: Telling someone they need more clubhead speed to hit it further. Next thing you know you get 1) overacceleration 2)throwaway

As opposed to tracing a straight plane line w/ that all important on plane right shoulder, tour pivot and excellent clubface control. Etc, etc, etc.

Ok, maybe a bad analogy but I think the point is the same
 
Leo,

I think with the kinetic chain that there are a lot of set up and physiological aspects to it.

Your set up will dictate much of when and how your chain 'snaps'. For instance, left foot turned in=earlier braking point. Same with square hip line versus open hip line.

ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL!

Your body's limitations will dictate much of when and how. Tighter and weaker usually mean an earlier 'release' which might show up as a weaker shot pattern, steering, or recruitment of other sources.

Essentially the range of motion between your joints will dictate a lot.

Your mental limitations will affect the chain. Mentally tightening will cause a breakdown-probably a 'holding' of one segment.

I think the selected shot pattern has much to do with it. The person who feels like he rotates ALL the way to his finish position is still 'snapping', but just feels it less, and the overtaking takes place closer to impact, or relatively later, which leaves certain feelings, or perceptions in the phase of the swing that is pretty much a 'blur' to almost everyone.

Finally, I would disagree that you can't work on it. I think that punch shots, and half swings are good for working on the deceleration side of the sequence. This is a skill for the better players generally, and no need for any explanations.

Just some random thoughts...I do agree that it is an interesting subject, and look forward to the various viewpoints.

Damon
Here are some of my thoughts:

It's a complex chain. Leg work driving the hips - hips and core muscles driving the shoulders -shoulders and upper body muscles driving the arms - hands/arms driving the club.

The efficiency comes from driving each segment so that energy and momentum are transferred efficiently to the next segment. Each segment needs to keep driving- work needs to go on - to eventually be able to provide maximum kinetic energy to the club head at impact. Any slow-down prior impact in any segment should only happen as a result of the kinetic energy/momentum transfer to the next segment.

The torque curves in each segment should be optimized and we are not dealing with modern machinery with well calibrated sensors and computers that can be programmed to provide repeatably the exact torque that's required.
The problem is not the processing power in our computers, it's the sensory system. Our sensors don't give out numbers, they're based on the ever elusive feel. Calibration varies from day to day and during an round, shot to shot.

I've started to think that axis tilt plays a role, not only in the geometry (getting right shoulder down on plane), but also in efficient transfer of kinetic energy from hips to shoulders.

Club release can be more of a snap or sweep type release. I think there's evidence that both styles can be applied efficiently. How it happens, may depend on the driving torque curve applied to the hands prior and during the release and what kind of work right arm does.

Personally I'm still working on trying to get my pivot going properly, staring from the legwork and then getting more axis tilt.
 
we hear people (such as Brian) saying things like, "you got to snap your chain better..."

HOW do you get them to do that?

Ya that's the important part fa-sure.

...

Hit things with towel......("wallop with your pivot")

Throw clubs........

TILT "through the hit."

"Squeeze water out of ground."

Practice pivoting without a club.

"Hit into firm left side."

Think of/compare to/practice throwing a ball....."step then fire...."

"Shoot your arms off past the ball".....

"Shoot the sand outta the bottle" ala Ben Doyle.

(these last 2 are like you flying forward when you hit the brakes of your car)

...

Heh.....most of that stuff was in Flipper. (**copyright Manzella, 200X**)
 
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