Lead Arm Parallel ... Forearm or Upper Arm

[drewyallop]

The lead arm is bent during the backswing. At the top your upper arm is parallel to the ground. Your forearm is not parallel to the ground; it is about 60 degrees to the forearm, say. The club handle and lead hand are above the upper arm.

On start down the forearm begins to straighten and at some point is parallel to the ground. At this point the upper arm is below parallel.

First question: BM says application of force about the coupling point should start when the the lead arm is parallel. Which part of the lead arm ... upper arm or forearm.

Second question: Which of the three scenarios described by Brian in the out-toss thread would apply here?

 

[SteveT]

I think you would want to straighten out the lead arm before you got to clubshaft vertical up in the downswing, and the out-toss must be concurrent with that straightening. Sounds like a complex compound set of movements fraught with uncertainty at the start of the downswing.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Whoever wants to deal with arms is doomed. What astonish me is how naive people can be to ask to trust distal parts of the body. It is unbelieveable.

Cheers

 

[magicmarker]

Whoever wants to deal with arms is doomed. What astonish me is how stupid people can be to ask to trust distal parts of the body. It is unbelieveable.

Cheers

Just out of curiosity, what do you use to drive a car?

 

[drewyallop]

I think you would want to straighten out the lead arm before you got to clubshaft vertical up in the downswing, and the out-toss must be concurrent with that straightening. Sounds like a complex compound set of movements fraught with uncertainty at the start of the downswing.

I don't straighten my arm when shaft gets vertical. I keep the bend and assume that the unbending in transition is equivalent to an out-toss. I may be wrong but keeping the bend is recommended by MJ and I notice BM does it in some of his videos. Note that this is ad description of my swing and may make no sense to long bombers who keep a fairly straight arm to the top. I can't do this.

 

[drewyallop]

Whoever wants to deal with arms is doomed. What astonish me is how stupid people can be to ask to trust distal parts of the body. It is unbelieveable.

Cheers

Thanks D. Bite me.

 

[SteveT]

Whoever wants to deal with arms is doomed. What astonish me is how stupid people can be to ask to trust distal parts of the body. It is unbelieveable.

But Dariusz, "feeel" is best "feeelt" in the hands according to this scan of the brain motor cortex:

Or this lia-style "show & tell" picture:

lia once mentioned that he was going to law school... so he is the perfect epitome of the homunculus man ... lots of motor cortex devoted to the mouth and hands... both being used to talk and gesticulate ... just like a lawyer and wannabe golf teacher posting pictures.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Whoever wants to deal with arms is doomed. What astonish me is how stupid people can be to ask to trust distal parts of the body. It is unbelieveable.

Cheers

What does this mean? I don't get it at all.

 

[johnnymarlboro]

Aw, did poor little SteveT get his feeelings hurt?

What hurts the most Steve, the fact that he's younger and has a better understanding about the golf swing, or that people actually appreciate his posts unlike the crap you post up?

If you think you're so smart then quit acting like a child and contribute something worthwhile.

 

[SteveT]

What does this mean? I don't get it at all.

I think it means the hands and arms should not precede the rest of the body in the execution of a golfswing. You see, the lead arm is essentially torqued and freewheeling and the right arm is ballistic... so trying to trim up the fastest parts of the body is fraught with failure.

Of course, the "pupil" thinks that the arms swing the golf club and their decrepit body just stands there. I suppose you just have to "trick" them when it comes to body changes.

 

[SteveT]

Aw, did poor little SteveT get his feeelings hurt?

What hurts the most Steve, the fact that he's younger and has a better understanding about the golf swing, or that people actually appreciate his posts unlike the crap you post up?

If you think you're so smart then quit acting like a child and contribute something worthwhile.

So you prefer lia's "show & tell" kindergarten pictures.. which are essentially useless because you don't know how the pro golfers got to their positions ... as Brian once reminded us.

You obviously prefer pictures to scientific words... easier to "read".

 

[Dariusz J.]

Just out of curiosity, what do you use to drive a car?

I should have added in my previous post -- in a golf swing. OTOH, it should be understood that we discuss golf swing here.

Thanks D. Bite me.

I apologize for using a not proper word. I have already corrected it.

But Dariusz, "feeel" is best "feeelt" in the hands according to this scan of the brain motor cortex:

Or this lia-style "show & tell" picture:

I am not talking about feels but about mechanics, Steve. Often, an action of distal parts is conscious and this is what I am against. If the motion of arms is being subdued to physics and anatomy on an subconscious level all is OK.

What does this mean? I don't get it at all.

Not best post of mine, I agree. Again, I apologize.

Cheers

 

[lia41985]

Steve: I don't know if people enjoy my kindergarten posts but they don't seem to enjoy you shitting your diaper every time you post.

Lead arm parallel: forearm

 

[SteveT]

Steve: I don't know if people enjoy my kindergarten posts but they don't seem to enjoy you shitting your diaper every time you post.

Well, it's apparent that you poop yourself every time I post... because you know that definitive science trumps kindergarten "show & tell" vids and pics that you post and refuse to "tell" us anything about them.

Jeez, you must spend a lot of time searching the google, video and youtube golf archives in your law and golf clerking work.

Grow up ... because your pics are not evidence of anything .... as Brian has reminded us. Of course, desperate and deluded golfers erroneously think "I see therefore I can"... and they love you and your plethora of pics.

 

[drewyallop]

Steve: I don't know if people enjoy my kindergarten posts but they don't seem to enjoy you shitting your diaper every time you post.

Lead arm parallel: forearm

Thanks Lia. I think you are right and I can now stop trying to apply force at upper arm parallel which is just about impossible for me.

BTW, how did you know?

 

[lia41985]

how did you know?

Hey Drew,
Here's some show:

I'll let Brian tell--check out his video here:
Big Play: Rory McIlroy's key to victory at the Honda Classic | GOLF.com

 

[SteveT]

The lead arm is bent during the backswing. At the top your upper arm is parallel to the ground. Your forearm is not parallel to the ground; it is about 60 degrees to the forearm (?? - or do you mean to say the "upper arm"?), say. The club handle and lead hand are above the upper arm.

On start down the forearm begins to straighten and at some point is parallel to the ground. At this point the upper arm is below parallel.

First question: BM says application of force about the coupling point should start when the the lead arm is parallel. Which part of the lead arm ... upper arm or forearm.

Second question: Which of the three scenarios described by Brian in the out-toss thread would apply here?

If I understand you correctly, you are unable to rotate your shoulders enough to get your upper and forearm vertically straight up at the top of the swing for about 180º of turn.... and your upper arm can only rotate 90º to parallel and your forearm rotates an additional 30º so it's 60º to the ground.

IOW, your out-toss starts at your lead elbow and rotating your forearm at the elbow, while your shoulder rotation pulls the upper arm below a parallel forearm later in the downswing. If this is correct then:

You must straighten your lead arm very early in the downswing, otherwise you are creating another rotation axis around your lead elbow later in the downswing when things are speeding up beyond control.

If you can't do this, then just shorten your backswing while keeping your lead arm straight throughout. You can swing effectively even with a 1/2-5/8ths backswing.

It's all a matter of control, and adding a new elbow pivot point later in the golfswing is a death move.

 

[drewyallop]

L

Hey Drew,
Here's some show:

I'll let Brian tell--check out his video here:
Big Play: Rory McIlroy's key to victory at the Honda Classic | GOLF.com

Thanks Lia. Very helpful. Makes the downswing sequence clear.

 

[lia41985]

Tangential to lead forearm parallel at which point you're trying to rotate around the coupling point/tumbling. In rotating around the coupling point/tumbling how accurate/useful is it to speak of the golf swing in planar terms, at least until the club reaches parallel to the ground after impact? Here's what I'm looking at:

Tiger:
https://picasaweb.google.com/106612...CJSzia3P0KjUngE#slideshow/5736974318038247554

Player:
https://picasaweb.google.com/106612...gCIfeg7-C-93lGQ#slideshow/5680524446493943330

Thoughts?

 

[lia41985]

Tangential to lead forearm parallel at which point you're trying to rotate around the coupling point/tumbling. In rotating around the coupling point/tumbling how accurate/useful is it to speak of the golf swing in planar terms, at least until the club reaches parallel to the ground after impact?

Answer: useful

Skilled golfers in general exhibited semi-planar downswings with two distinct phases: a transition phase and a planar execution phase.

From:Assessment of planarity of the golf swing bas... [Sports Biomech. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI