Left Lean vs. Right Lean

[ggsjpc]

Ok, so I'll put forth the opposing view.

1st of all, I'm looking at K Shields, a 2 time US Open Champ, and a long drive champ vs. the golf digest guy and 2 others I don't know.

I think that regardless of backswing type, hitting beyond the line requires additional steps. They are different from each other but they do occur with many different golfers.

What percentage of right leaners know what those steps are and what percentage of left leaners know what those steps are would be a very interesting poll to say the least.

I think if you took someone with absolutely no golf history and put them in an orthodox right leaning top of the backswing position

or

you put them in an 'orthodox' left leaning top of the back swing position

the left leaners would have an easier time hitting the ground past the line.

Does this make it better? I don't see why it would. Knowing what to do after the backswing can make up the difference rather quickly.

Now if we compared someone with absolutely no golf history with:

an orthodox right leaning top of the backswing position

vs

putting them into the top of the backswing positions shown we might get a very different outcome.

Just to stir the pot a little.......

 

[Brian Manzella]

Opinion vs. Testing.

I think if you took someone with absolutely no golf history and put them in an orthodox right leaning top of the backswing position

or

you put them in an 'orthodox' left leaning top of the back swing position

the left leaners would have an easier time hitting the ground past the line.

No chance.

Lots of folks—these days—would say the exact same thing.

Why?

Maybe they just don't see enough golfers to know an what accurate cross-section of golfers actually do,

I know this, when I charged $40 an hour, I saw a lot of reverse pivoting hackers.

At $200 an hour on the road, I see a lot of folks who swing TOO FAR TO THE RIGHT, and a far bigger percentage of right leaners than I did 10 years ago.

I'd love to test this at a big golf expo for the public.

I have a feeling I would be VERY correct.

.....

Now, an interesting sub-set would be "left leaning golfers well off of their left foot" like Johnny Miller circa '73-'74, or Colin Montgomerie circa 1992, VS. "left leaning LEFTWARD WEIGHT at the top" golfers.

I pick the Miller-Monty group.

Not just stirring the pot.

TRYING TO HELP SAVE GOLF FROM JUNK SCIENCE!!!!!

 

[ggsjpc]

Do you think that still holds true if they didn't try to hit a ball on the way to that line?

I was speaking of just hitting the ground with no ball.

 

[Michael Finney]

Do you think that still holds true if they didn't try to hit a ball on the way to that line?

I was speaking of just hitting the ground with no ball.

^^^^^^this would be the equivalent of practicing the golf swing with a dowel instead of a golf club.....

the swing would have to be at a ball....the ball is what makes the left leaners do what they do.....

 

[Brian Manzella]

Do you think that still holds true if they didn't try to hit a ball on the way to that line?

I was speaking of just hitting the ground with no ball.

I am speaking of hitting an actual golf ball, with an actual golf club, off of actual grass, in an actual study, conducted using actual proper test conditions.

Or just in the real world.

 

[ggsjpc]

^^^^^^this would be the equivalent of practicing the golf swing with a dowel instead of a golf club.....

the swing would have to be at a ball....the ball is what makes the left leaners do what they do.....

So, are you saying that the left leaners have a problem with their low point because of the ball

or

are you saying that they lean left because of the ball?

Is the ball the same reason why right leaners have trouble with low point also?

With this argument, it appears that the ball is the reason most players have a problem with their low point.

This may well be true, and if it is, what difference does it make if you lean right or left?

Lastly, ball excluded, do you agree that the right leaners would have a harder time hitting the groud passed the line than the left leaners with absolutely no golf experience or knowledge?

 

[spktho]

So, are you saying that the left leaners have a problem with their low point because of the ball

or

are you saying that they lean left because of the ball?

Is the ball the same reason why right leaners have trouble with low point also?

With this argument, it appears that the ball is the reason most players have a problem with their low point.

This may well be true, and if it is, what difference does it make if you lean right or left?

Lastly, ball excluded, do you agree that the right leaners would have a harder time hitting the groud passed the line than the left leaners with absolutely no golf experience or knowledge?

Hope you don't mind a right leaning hack with (past)contact problems jumping in and I think you know the answer to your own questions.....the low point problems are most likely caused by trying to get the ball in the air by trying to scoop with the club and breaking down wrist conditions while leaning back(right).

That being said, the primary rationale of why leaning left on the backswing is taught is so that all players make better contact with the ball by minimizing the "leaning back".

So the point Brian is showing is not that all type of "backswingers" have contact problems. It is that leaning left does not absolutely, 100%, all the time improve contact for all players.

 

[greenfree]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pw0XRAuO0w[/media]

Here's how it's done.

 

[ggsjpc]

Hope you don't mind a right leaning hack with (past)contact problems jumping in and I think you know the answer to your own questions.....the low point problems are most likely caused by trying to get the ball in the air by trying to scoop with the club and breaking down wrist conditions while leaning back(right).

That being said, the primary rationale of why leaning left on the backswing is taught is so that all players make better contact with the ball by minimizing the "leaning back".

So the point Brian is showing is not that all type of "backswingers" have contact problems. It is that leaning left does not absolutely, 100%, all the time improve contact for all players.

So, if I maintain the same wrist conditions, do I increase my chance of getting the lowpoint closer to the target if I lean right in the backswing or left or does it not matter?

If someone is selling that leaning left absolutely, 100%, all the time improves contact for all players seems to have forgotten about the rest of the downswing. Is that really what is being sold?

 

[Kevin Shields]

My view from afar is I thought what is being sold is ANY move off the ball complicates the downswing. Am I close?

 

[lynxgolf]

low point

An interesting discussion. I think the right leaning pivots demonstrated represent good players while the reverse pivot pics show 'less good' players so probably are an unfair representation. I think pivots in general are taught badly and maybe that is why left leaning has gained some popularity.
In all the golf I have played this year i have seen about 10 divots (including all my playing partners) so the general standard of golf tuition is poor.

I have turned to left leaning as a last resort as I think the move forward is the hardest move in golf

 

[spktho]

So, if I maintain the same wrist conditions, do I increase my chance of getting the lowpoint closer to the target if I lean right in the backswing or left or does it not matter?

I would say yes if the wrist conditions are utilized well, among other things, then the type of backswing matters less.

If someone is selling that leaning left absolutely, 100%, all the time improves contact for all players seems to have forgotten about the rest of the downswing. Is that really what is being sold?

I don't know if that is what is being sold, I used it in an attempt to illustrate the "one method to hit a golf ball is best" dogma.

 

[vandal]

Well, those examples of left-lean are not what I thought you were talking about -- they look nothing like I imagined.

 

[holeout]

My view from afar is I thought what is being sold is ANY move of the ball complicates the downswing. Am I close?

I believe the centered pivot/MORAD-influenced guys want to avoid too much move off the ball or weight transfer for the sake of avoiding having to make "too many other moves".

 

[Steve Khatib]

So, if I maintain the same wrist conditions, do I increase my chance of getting the lowpoint closer to the target if I lean right in the backswing or left or does it not matter?

If someone is selling that leaning left absolutely, 100%, all the time improves contact for all players seems to have forgotten about the rest of the downswing. Is that really what is being sold?

What's a wrist condition? This way too complicated for these guys! All they are selling is dont sway off the ball and the less moving parts the better.

 

[Steve Khatib]

Funny thing is I saw Baddelley two weeks ago live and he was soooo underplane that he was fatting shots and lossing most of his full swings to the right(without his putter he would be a 5 handicapper). His new coach de 'stacked' and de 'tilted' him (you know what I mean) but he cant fix his underplane issues. So he was probably better of with a little stack and tilt until he finds someone to stop his swinging to far to the right issues.

 

[TROYNYGOLFER]

Funny thing is I saw Baddelley two weeks ago live and he was soooo underplane that he was fatting shots and lossing most of his full swings to the right(without his putter he would be a 5 handicapper). His new coach de 'stacked' and de 'tilted' him (you know what I mean) but he cant fix his underplane issues. So he was probably better of with a little stack and tilt until he finds someone to stop his swinging to far to the right issues.

While I take absolutely no delight in watching any golfer, especially one as talented as Badds struggle; it is truly amazing that even those who can afford the very best of coaching, unwittingly find themselves in the same position as those of us hackers.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

In general i find that bad golfers need to be de-"left leaned" and better golfers need to be de-"right leaned" to the extent of their problem.

However some people want over-emphasize each when in a lot of cases (with the exception of hackers) they don't need to be de-leaned (whichever way) a whole bunch.

 

[softconsult]

I recall my experiment with Stack & Tilt, when first became the big buzz method. My buddy who owns a local range was espousing it's benefits. So I got the Golf Digest mag, and tried it for about a month or so.

I must say I hit some really good crisp solid shots. Some of them were quite amazing and perfect. But there were two big problems.

The first was that I could never make it work from 100 yards in. Felt like I had no touch.

The killer was that the move where you jump up on the lead leg made my shin go numb. I'm not young. I gave it up, and the feeling returned to my shin.

 

[softconsult]

Jim, assuming good golfer, do tall people, say over 6 feet, need less axis tilt than shorter golfers? I remember Brian making the comment to me that I didn't need much axis tilt.