Letter From PING about Eye 2 Wedges on the Major Tours
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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Whiteflash
New
Why?
I don't know all the legalities of the original lawsuit. But, if there is a rule that the grooves of the irons have to have a certain shape and depth, then all irons need to conform to help lessen/eliminate an equipment advantage.
imo, Ping REALLY let their customers down. They bought these clubs with the clear understanding they'd always be legal for play. Ping violated that trust. I also wonder if Ping is now exposed itself to legal action from these very same customers.
Can you tell us what customer is let down in this situation?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Are you kidding me???
Probably the second worst post in Manzella forum history.
PING could have BANKRUPTED the USGA back when the groove thing went down, they didn't for the good of the game.
They didn't have to do this, but there was going to start being fist-fights on the PGA Tour.
Every single PGA TOUR player can get the EXACT SAME WEDGE with "current specification" grooves.
So can ANY customer.
And all the club golfers can play with square grooved EYE 2 wedges for ever and ever and ever.
So, exactly what were you saying?
Guess I'm honored for the silver. Bit disappointed however, who won gold for most ridiculous post ever?
Not sure why I need to be more explicit but at the risk of being redundant, any one who bought the grandfathered irons/wedges did so with the explicit knowledge they'd be grandfathered forever. That added to their value, be they pro, amateur or club dealer. Ping has now taken action that will adversely effect the value of those clubs. They were the care taker of value for them, and now they renigged on their responsibility.
Does it rise to the level of legal liability? I don't know as I'm not an attorney. But if I were sitting on a decent size of *formerly* grandfathered Ping inventory, I'd sure as heck check into it to see if I could make a damages claim.
Not sure why I need to be more explicit but at the risk of being redundant, any one who bought the grandfathered irons/wedges did so with the explicit knowledge they'd be grandfathered forever. That added to their value, be they pro, amateur or club dealer. Ping has now taken action that will adversely effect the value of those clubs. They were the care taker of value for them, and now they renigged on their responsibility.
Does it rise to the level of legal liability? I don't know as I'm not an attorney. But if I were sitting on a decent size of *formerly* grandfathered Ping inventory, I'd sure as heck check into it to see if I could make a damages claim.
We all make double bogies, but that post must have been made from ignorance of the facts and the history.
The USGA, on their own accord, legalized square grooves back in 1984. Karsten began making them - a lot of them. The USGA just happened to make an adjustment of how the spacing between the grooves was measured, and, just by luck, the Ping grooves were too close by the width of a human hair. Long story short, Ping and the USGA settled out of court grandfathering the pre-April 1990 clubs.
The PGA Tour had jumped behind the USGA in the late 80's. But they were trying to ban square grooves, themselves, not the spacing which the USGA had settled on.
The Tour should have backed off right then and there. But they didn't.
The Tour had 12 board members, which included 4 touring pros - all represented by competitors of Ping.
Again, long story short, the Tour board members voted to change their by-laws, so they could make a rules changes with the 4 playing members abstaining, and then voted to ban square grooves (basically Ping Eye 2s) in THE SAME FRICKEN MEETING. After 3 years, and 5 days before the first court date, the Tour backed down and then settled with Ping with basically the same agreement Ping had with the USGA.
Please don't feel sorry for the Tour and the USGA in this matter. They created this mess. And Ping was the only one that could rescue these guys.
The USGA, on their own accord, legalized square grooves back in 1984. Karsten began making them - a lot of them. The USGA just happened to make an adjustment of how the spacing between the grooves was measured, and, just by luck, the Ping grooves were too close by the width of a human hair. Long story short, Ping and the USGA settled out of court grandfathering the pre-April 1990 clubs.
The PGA Tour had jumped behind the USGA in the late 80's. But they were trying to ban square grooves, themselves, not the spacing which the USGA had settled on.
The Tour should have backed off right then and there. But they didn't.
The Tour had 12 board members, which included 4 touring pros - all represented by competitors of Ping.
Again, long story short, the Tour board members voted to change their by-laws, so they could make a rules changes with the 4 playing members abstaining, and then voted to ban square grooves (basically Ping Eye 2s) in THE SAME FRICKEN MEETING. After 3 years, and 5 days before the first court date, the Tour backed down and then settled with Ping with basically the same agreement Ping had with the USGA.
Please don't feel sorry for the Tour and the USGA in this matter. They created this mess. And Ping was the only one that could rescue these guys.
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Since your entire post is a non sequitur relative to mine, I'd have to put you down for a quad on that one.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
I remember that, it was bad....really.
Whiteflash
New
I understand the situation but in no way Ping should have relented. My guess is that if Karsten were alive he never would have done what his son just did.
Steve Greffen
New
Of course he would not be making forged irons either.
I am upset with this decision on a personal level. I just went out and bought four (two in the bag and two back ups) old eye 2 wedges. So I guess this decision has set me back a few hundred bucks.
Are you a tour player?
Richie3Jack
New
I think the whole thing is stupid.
Ping shouldn't be involved in making the Rules of Golf.
The USGA should've been on top of the original square grooves from the very beginning so Ping would not have had such a huge supply.
The groove rule looks like it hasn't effected Tour scores in the slightest. It hasn't changed golfers from bombing it out there and missing the fairway.
Going back and getting these old Ping Eye 2 wedges was something golfers were trying to do back when I was in college, ten years ago, and just about everybody junked them because the modern wedge design performed better...w/o the square grooves.
All a big fuss over something that should have never happened in the first place and really over something that I do not think has positively or negatively impacted the actual game...but in the end it negatively impacted a lot of people.
3JACK
Ping shouldn't be involved in making the Rules of Golf.
The USGA should've been on top of the original square grooves from the very beginning so Ping would not have had such a huge supply.
The groove rule looks like it hasn't effected Tour scores in the slightest. It hasn't changed golfers from bombing it out there and missing the fairway.
Going back and getting these old Ping Eye 2 wedges was something golfers were trying to do back when I was in college, ten years ago, and just about everybody junked them because the modern wedge design performed better...w/o the square grooves.
All a big fuss over something that should have never happened in the first place and really over something that I do not think has positively or negatively impacted the actual game...but in the end it negatively impacted a lot of people.
3JACK
No but that's not the point. He bought Ping equipment, a meaningful part of the value derived from it's grandfathered status in various pro tournaments ... NOT JUST PGA. And the potential he had to sell them to someone who would utilize grandfathered status to put them in play.
Ping's decision to not honor their settlement has in all likelihood materially impaired the value of that equipment.
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