Long Hitter - Very Little Lag

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mclare

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I've always been a long hitter (very Ballard type motion), but have never had much lag. I have a difficult time buying the argument that clubhead lag = distance. I do think, however, that this lack of lag might be a reason for my inconsistency and wildness off the tee. That's why I'm on this forum trying to learn enough to change my swing.

Any suggestions or comments?
 
mgjordan

mgjordan

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I don't think having max. trigger delay is as important as it's made out to be for distance. There are many long drive competitors that don't have the club way, way behind their hands. Remeber, as Yoda pointed out on Chuck Evan's site, clubhead lag is the clubhead lagging the shaft. Accumulator lag is the clubhead lagging the hands. Clubhead lag is important...an imperative. Maximum trigger delay IS NOT and imperative.
 
mgjordan

mgjordan

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My point is proven by watching video of Snead and Hogan. Hogan had LOTS of accumulator lag in his downswing...a lot more than Snead. However, Snead was longer.
 
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MizunoJoe

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The issue here is not MAX lag, but that Mclare claims to be "long" with "very little" lag. He's either not "long" OR has more pivot, accumulator, and clubhead "lag" than he thinks.
 
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EdZ

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IMO power is more about lag 'pressure' - as long as you can feel the lag pressure, you will have mass, and power
 
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EdZ

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Not an absolute, no - but there is a balance of 'speed' vs. 'mass' -distance can come from either - but both is far better.
 
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MizunoJoe

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Amazing - I had no idea that ANYONE could generate clubhead speed through the impact interval with "very little" lag pressure!
 
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mclare

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I have very little accumulator lag. My wrists are very stiff (with little range of motion) but I learned 25 years ago from Sam Byrd (Jimmy Ballard's teacher) how to move my pivot with speed and straighten my right arm with speed through the ball. My clubhead speed has been measured in the 125-130mph range.

Could you explain maximum trigger delay in more detail?
 
mgjordan

mgjordan

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"Amazing - I had no idea that ANYONE could generate clubhead speed through the impact interval with "very little" lag pressure!"

That isn't what I (or EDZ) is saying. We are saying that it is possible to have A LOT of clubhead lag pressure with VERY LITTLE accumulator lag. You can resist the clubhead without having a downswing like Sergio.
 
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Archie Swivel

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MClare,

If you happen to have, say, a 16 lb (7.3 kilogram) shot put lying around the house from you old track and field days, place it in front of you like a golf ball. Then try to move it with your 7-iron first with an arched left wrist and bent right wrist (lagging), then second with an arched right wrist and a bent left wrist (leaking). Which way would you be able to best exert force on it?

The Swiveling Archman
 
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mclare

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quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

MClare,

If you happen to have, say, a 16 lb (7.3 kilogram) shot put lying around the house from you old track and field days, place it in front of you like a golf ball. Then try to move it with your 7-iron first with an arched left wrist and bent right wrist (lagging), then second with an arched right wrist and a bent left wrist (leaking). Which way would you be able to best exert force on it?

The Swiveling Archman
Click to expand...

Thanks Archman, good visual. With my Ballard motion, I'd try to move it with my pivot and let my hands react. Unfortunately, this approach has resulted in uneducated hands and arms (and leakage). I'll try your drill...
 
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MizunoJoe

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mgjordan,

That is EXACTLY what EdZ is saying - we were discussing "lag pressure", NOT "accumulator lag", and you presumably mean "#2 accumulator lag".
 
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MizunoJoe

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Mclare,

You are describing a hitting procedure with a pivot blast off. In order to bend your right elbow with limited left wrist cock, you would have to bend your left arm. You should post this 4,1 2-barrel accumulator swing. It's hard to believe that a hitting procedure with limited wrist cock could deliver 125-130 mph clubhead speed.
 
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MizunoJoe

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Every card carrying Tour player has plenty of #2 accumulator lag with this minimum standard - when the left hand just reaches the right thigh, the shaft is horizontal, or above, on a full shot. There is not ONE who doesn't meet this standard. If you think otherwise, post the pics/video.
 
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Archie Swivel

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My country club had a Calloway rep there yesterday with that device that tells your your ball speed, launch angle and spin rate. I hit like 30 drives and ball speed was in the 145-148 mph range almost ever time, with my highest at a cool 151 mph. However, spin rate was in the 4K's and launch angle was 7-9 degrees. I hit fairly long soaring driving that rose sky high late in the flight. Few questions: What can I do to achieve lower spin rate and higher launch angle? What are the tour averages for these stats? What is the average for non-tour hackers? Finally, can I deduce that by achieving 150 mph ball speed that I must have been obtaining some lag? I'm 5' 9", 165 lbs, small boned.
 
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MizunoJoe

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I can't believe the Calloway rep wasn't trying to sell you low spin balls and 13 deg drivers. With 150 mph ball speed, you certainly have "some lag", but very probably less than you are capable of. A healthy person can increase ball speed by optimizing #2 accumulator lag and using a max trigger delay, small pulley, snap release, and by sustaining the resultant lag pressure all the way past separation.
 
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lagster

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Mizunojoe-- I agree that most tour players have the shaft parallel to the ground when the hands reach the right leg on the downswing, and I have seen some that reach the position of left arm vertical, and shaft parallel(rare).

However, I do remember seeing pictures of Curtis Strange, Greg Norman, Tom Watson, and Tom Weiskopf. All but Strange are pretty long hitters. I don't have the ability to post the pictures, but as I recall, they are all more of sweep releasers, with larger pulleys.
(I have heard... the distance from the ball to the point where the shaft becomes parallel to the ground on the downswing... called The Pulley)

Maybe what we are talking about here are actually different kinds of Releases, rather than so much lag. Watson, and these guys must have clubhead lag, or we would never have heard of them. They don't, however, look to have Snap(Late) releases, with maximum trigger delay.

I agree that the Els, Elkington, Charles Howell III, etc., kind of release, seems to be more of what we see now.

Also.... Strange, had the Ballard influence.
 
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