Looking to get a little bit more shaft lean ( brian manzella)

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davel

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Looking to get a little bit more shaft lean ( brian manzella) video posted!

Brian

Have been constantly been working on my swing and getting no where until I went back to all the fundamentals of a good grip , good posture and a good takeaway. On video for the first time I saw reduced head bobbing , a shaft which was text book on plane and a good shoulder turn. Head even went backward a bit ala Ballard but with the artificial leg I did not sway. On the downswing every thing went good but close to impact I stalled and I had a hand flip just after the ball was hit. I think this was due to a lack of hip turn because of the leg. So technically I achieved proper impact but it is too close to depend on.

The one thing I noticed on the video was my head was moving forward at impact! Should I try keeping my head back like you teach with mike jacobs on your excellent video 10 things every golfer should know video.

I should say If I go for more extension on the back swing ( using a lagging club takeaway) on my drives I have hit as far as ever have but it too much effort and balance problems can show up.

Looking for any ideas?

By the way I am looking for more distance with less effort.

Thanks
Dave
 
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b90jos

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I don't think you can ever get more distance with less effort. When you look at any long hitter..their arms and general swing looks effortless but if you look at the body and hips you will see a different story.
 
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SteveT

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Well ... If I had an prosthetic back right leg, I wouldn't want to put much weight on it in the golf swing ... scientifically speaking that is ...!!!

Intuitively, I would keep my weight on my good lead left leg and mostly apply thrust into my solid back leg. I assume your good leg is in good physical shape and can take the weight, shear torque and thrust too.

The other problem I envisage is how do you swing your rear artificial leg forward in the downswing? It would seem as if your hip rotation would have to pull it around, thus reducing the kinetic energy because you have to work to move the artificial back leg?

Please forgive me for being so forthright, but your situation demands empathy (i.e. putting myself into your golf shoes), and perhaps a scientific solution is needed to help you in your predicament. It's quite the interesting problem, and I hope my comments can elicit your own experiences.
 
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Crunchie1982

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Thats an interesting predicament - it sounds like re artificial right leg is allowing you to really 'post up' on the backswing without swaying, and make an excellent backswing.

All great players that I've seen keep their heads from moving forward on the downswing until after impact. I guess the problem you have is that you're not allowing the turn of your shoulders, release of the club and the momentum of your downswing to take you naturally off your right side - because you cAnt counterbalance the throughswing / swinging left with a right foot.

Maybe experiment with some different follow throughs and just see what works best, even if it looks unconventional? Maybe even a Gary player style walk-through finish, if it allows you to pivot on your left side whilst maintaining balance?

Anyway, that's just my two cents. Hopefully an instructor can offer you more expert advice. Good luck and best wishes
 
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davel

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So far you guys are getting to understand the problem and have hit some key point on the head. I want to minimize any concern for the physical issues as I am well now and happy and I have a better perspective on life and have always been determined to solve technical problems the best way I can ( I am a electrical engineer, programmer, control systems specialist, and architect for a advanced distributed control system). So in my own world I try to make my model of how a golf swing should work. Until recently I got caught up too much with the garbage information and now I beak it up with key fundamentals of posture. grip, and a good takeaway and everything like swing plane seems to take care of itself. by the way I am above knee amputee which is significantly different and harder than a below knee amputation. Here is summary of the comments made so far:
1. keeping weight exclusively on left leg. I find I will miss hit some shots when I put too much weight on the rear leg that if the ground is hard and a bit slick the artificially leg will slip and turn and I try to get to the ball with not much success. When I look at my video I can see axis tilt is good at the end of back swing (no reverse tilt) I am shifting my hips forward on the back swing which in a way helps create some torque and is a stack and tilt component. I do not use spikes because if you change the height of shoe you can not easily walk correctly. Also I was concerned about the hip rotation on the back swing and the video clearly shows it is there. They do make a special adapter that can be attached to bottom portion of the leg which allows some rotation but I do not have that presently. As far as intentionally keeping my weight on the left leg I personally kind of refuse to consider intentionally doing it. I figure mother nature will figure a efficient way mainly with the balance system to come up with the solution. If I did I think I would lose any enjoyment of the game. If I have a very uneven lie ( which is hard to balance on) I just pitch it out and move on hoping to make it up with a good chip or putt.



2. Yes as I said I get more distance with effort and guess what also happens. I end up using the gary player step thru. It is something that just happens just due to the force and never intentionally. For those who may be concerned with the new improved swing off the tees I have gone between 250-- 270 yards last summer but that comes and goes. Irons are always below average distance. I just can not get myself to swing them harder because I like to maintain distance control and I can reproduce that more readily with a less than maximum effort.

3. Finally I have looked into what is known as right sided swings. Stack and tilt is one method and for all I know I am using it as looking at video can be deceiving and Brian has stated the spine angle does change.I know looking at my video that the knees and lower body action match up entirely with stack and tilt except the lack the hip rotation on the downswing .I have the book and DVD for Stack and Stilt but I do not really understand it and how to get it right. The gary edwin method which is a arm based swing wants you to start the club head first does not seem like something I want to do. Also the details of system are are difficult to understand.

4. Finally I am a close to 67 years old and consider myself flexible with a very strong left leg which was always very strong since I used to run numerous marathons. I exercise on a regular basis and do functional movement training. The most difficult part of that program is the balance and squat exercises as some are one leg only. I have not done enough strength training as I probably should for hitting out of heavy rough etc..

Please keep your responses coming as I am intrigued on ideas you may have. If you want to simulate what I feel put a heavy weight attached to your rear knee and swing on a surface that may be a little slick.

dave
 
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SteveT

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davel said:
So far you guys are getting to understand the problem and have hit some key point on the head. I want to minimize any concern for the physical issues as I am well now and happy and I have a better perspective on life and have always been determined to solve technical problems the best way I can ( I am a electrical engineer, programmer, control systems specialist, and architect for a advanced distributed control system). So in my own world I try to make my model of how a golf swing should work.................

Please keep your responses coming as I am intrigued on ideas you may have. If you want to simulate what I feel put a heavy weight attached to your rear knee and swing on a surface that may be a little slick.
Click to expand...


Okay, dave .. let's get down to business. You must think of your golfswing in terms of Watts = volts x amps .... BTW, can you post a swing video so we can better appreciate your one-and-a-half legged golfswing?

Are you amputated below or above the knee joint, because that makes a big difference. Also do you still sense your missing limb; does your brain still have neural memories and is still sending signals down the pathways?

When I model you, I think of somebody with a regular long leg and a short leg ... and from their I try to distribute the ground reaction forces under your good leg and under your artificial foot. However, I am still guessing as you can appreciate, so thanks for your candor about your situation, and our discussion may even aid those with less athletic legs struggling to hit the ball 200 true yards ...;)
 
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davel

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Brian

The really good video was made from a instructor at the golf villages academy. He is golf machine certified. The program I chose ( by mistake) was I got 5 lessons and a video to see there per swing but none to take with me. I could have gotten a package for the same price for 4 lessons but you would get a video summary sent home with a summary through v1 home. Mainly the lessons have been interactive. I show him my grip my posture and use the very mechanical ways to get them right. He kind of checks them off and then he takes a picture. In the first lesson we saw improvement but I was left with still a club coming outside first with a takeaway that was hands first and delayed shoulder turn. On the second lesson we saw the same thing so he put a weight to move back and magically everything looked much better.I will have to get my camera and see if I can get a video posted of a front view unless you need both.

As to your question as I remember the front hip went about a inch going back but before the back swing was complete the front hip went 2 inches forward of my address and then stalled. My rear fake leg had a very forward looking angle which increased as the swing progressed. It clearly was like a turn in the barrel back swing with no true weight shift and a shifting forward weight of stomping the ground with the head moving forward of the ball at impact. It had moved back somewhat in the back swing.

Let me know if you want me to try to duplicate the video although maybe I can get it from my instructor. Don't worry about a conflict of interest as this is something that he has not encountered and at the end of the lesson we did see that I met the 3 imperatives by about a frames worth of video and as you teach the ball is gone then. I need more tolerance than that. I am at the stage right know that the basics I have are not ingrained which is really backwards. the grip and posture need to be damn good to get everything right to at least get solid contact.

Regards
Dave
 
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davel

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video post

Here is the video. Should give every one a chuckle. I at least laughed. Remember were looking at the pivot or whatever. You can find it here on you tube.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65w02671TSQ[/media]

Dave
 
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ej20

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davel said:
Here is the video. Should give every one a chuckle. I at least laughed. Remember were looking at the pivot or whatever. You can find it here on you tube.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65w02671TSQ[/media]

Dave
Click to expand...

No chuckles here.Keep up the good work on your swing.Golf is one of the few sports you can play well with one leg.

You don't have a lot of lateral hip motion on the downswing due to perhaps the limitations with your leg.This is going to make hitting the ball a lot harder if you play the ball as far forward as you do.I suggest moving the ball a bit further back in your stance.
 
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wulsy

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Dave, maybe at the start of the downswing a little "reverse tumble" like Alvaro Quiros in the video in this thread would help. This move is often associated with lag, which would promote shaft lean. Your backswing looks pretty good.

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/14752-riddle-me.html#post185736

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1Y8EBT2NwJg&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1Y8EBT2NwJg&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>
 
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davel

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reverse rumble?

By reverse rumble do you mean going up steeper and rerouting to a flatter plane which if done properly is a snap release.

Dave
 
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wulsy

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Basically letting the clubhead move more behind you in the transition from backswing into downswing. Does not necessarily require a steeper backswing plane but a steeper backswing plane would encourage the flattening. How much you can let it go behind you without getting the clubhead "stuck" behind you is of course something which has to be monitored. Hence reverse tumble would have to be offset by tumble: tumble is the process of allowing the clubhead to move more out in front of you in the downswing.
 
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ej20

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Sometimes you need to be careful trying to copy someone else'e move.Not saying it shouldn't be done but most guys who shallow out on the transition usually need to do it because they have a steep backswing.Not everyone is suited to a steep backswing and it certainly is not a requirement for good ballstriking.

There are a few guys who shallow out without a steep backswing such as Sergio but they get extremely laid off and need to tumble furiously to get back on a decent plane.Now,science in the future may recognise this as being optimum to achieving the greatest lag and path but the point is can the average player do it?
 
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