Low Point Assumptions and their relationship to Trackman

[errolgolf]

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[Brian Manzella]

There Hertz, and there is "not exactly"....

Low point is the lowest, most outward point in a golf swing.

Ok.

Low point is usually opposite the forward shoulder, when left arm and clubshaft have a straight line relationship.

Might be, might not be.

For example, perfect center of the shoulders rotation and ANY #4 accumulator angle—LOW POINT WILL NOT BE OPPOSITE THE LEFT SHOULDER!!!!

A shot must have a negative angle of attack for any shot hit off the ground.
To strike a ball with a negative angle of attack, it must be struck before the clubhead reaches low point.

Yes.

The club is traveling down and out until it reaches, low point.

Ok.

If the club is not only traveling down but also out toward low point and the ball has to be back of low point for a negative angle of attack, then how can someone swing left to balance out the resultant path?

Trillions of ways.

You just have to have your "plane line" shifted to the left of the target.

It can be done for basically ANY stance line.

It seems to me, that the more the ball is played back of low point, the steeper the angle of attack and the more the club will be traveling out. Based on what I've read about trackman, Down and Out equals a leftward tilted spin axis.

If the face is left of the resultant path.

These seem to be opposing ideas.

Only with those who refuse to believe the truth.

Please point me in the right direction.

You have already found it.

 

[jake2]

With those assumptions in mind, please consider my rationale:
if the club is not only traveling down but also out toward low point and the ball has to be back of low point for a negative angle of attack, then how can someone swing left to balance out the resultant path?

If you want to move resultant path to the left then your options are to swing more left or less down (or both). What are you trying to ask?

Resultant path has nothing to with where face is pointing. Ball flight depends on the two, but that's another thing.

It seems to me, that the more the ball is played back of low point, the steeper the angle of attack and the more the club will be traveling out. Based on what I've read about trackman, Down and Out equals a leftward tilted spin axis.

I have the impression that for many good players, if they swing more right, they also tend to have more closed face relative to resultant path. Having ball more back in stance is one way of "swinging more right"

Swinging more left tends to result to less closed face in relation to resultant path. Having ball more front in stance is one way of "swinging more left".

Why face behaves this way for most good players would be nice to know. Is there something in the bio-mechanics or is it just tendencies. Or have I made wrong conclusions here?

 

[errolgolf]

If you want to move resultant path to the left then your options are to swing more left or less down (or both). What are you trying to ask?

Resultant path has nothing to with where face is pointing. Ball flight depends on the two, but that's another thing.

Jake, you've missed understood my question or I've written it poorly. My question is how can someone move their Horizontal swing plane more left if the ball is more back. That's assuming that for a ball played back of low point, the club has to be traveling down (vertically) and out (horizontally).

Based on what Brian said, is moving your left arm more out when it's parallel to the ground on the downswing, a good way to point your plane more left?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

how can someone move their Horizontal swing plane more left if the ball is more back.

Where the ball is, is irrevelant. Shrude example but if you are currenting swinging along something like this: |...and you want to move the HSP more like this: \ you simply swing more "\" way. In either case yes the club will be traveling down and out as you say but where that HSP has moved has changed.

Thats why HSP is 1 measurement and the "True path" when taken into account the "down/out" or VSP is going to be different.

Does that help?

 

[errolgolf]

What I'm getting from all this is that Down and Out doesn't necessarily mean Down and to the right., relative to your intended target line.

How much difficulty to people have separating the clubface from the path? That is to say, keep the clubface square to the intended target while swing the HSP to the left.

 

[Damon Lucas]

Errol,

The horizontal swing plane on a Trackman will look different from a 2-D(or 3-D) video and is likely far more precise. So your video might show a certain 'plane line', but the real HSP will be more left, and as such, you need to refer closely to Jim's post.

So down and out will mean down and to the right, but it it is to the right of 'what' that you are going to be initially thrown by, because you're probably used to a) using you naked eye, or b) relying on some drawn line on some computer program taken from some line, and 'seeing' that as your plane line.

New world!

 

[jake2]

Jake, you've missed understood my question or I've written it poorly. My question is how can someone move their Horizontal swing plane more left if the ball is more back. That's assuming that for a ball played back of low point, the club has to be traveling down (vertically) and out (horizontally).

Based on what Brian said, is moving your left arm more out when it's parallel to the ground on the downswing, a good way to point your plane more left?

Sorry about the confusion. Interesting question now that I think I understand. So something beyond: just do it?

I'm also interested in how the clubface tends to move or not move when one changes the direction of the swing (without aligning differently).