Manzella Towel Drill + pinch of "Yellow brick road"

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15 minutes later...can you see the differences?
Face Or path?

Before - nice 10Yards Push draw




BallViewFO -


Iron Punch Slight 2Yards PushDraw Straight at the flag -


Towell Drill + "Yellow brick road" + Move ball 2 inch foward



Manzella Towell Drill -
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
The pull fade was an in to out swing off the heel.

What do you think about maybe a grip change? Face is open for an awfully long time in the downswing making his lower body action suffer a bit.
 
The pull fade was an in to out swing off the heel.

What do you think about maybe a grip change? Face is open for an awfully long time in the downswing making his lower body action suffer a bit.

Kevin your swing nearly the same, you have similar moves in your swing, did you had/have clubface issues?

Your path look almost zero out is it the same with your driver?


The lower body action, I don't understand what do you mean suffer a bit from the clubface?

I think The path is the issue (too much drop not enough carry/rotation at transition, more carry), the misses are push and hooks, we try a few drills from NHA2, he started to hit a few fades.

Maybe he "needs" that 6-9 insideout path to match the way open face (80 degree open middle of downswing), and the twistaway/almost bow left wrist at impact show how much squaring up he needs to that push draw.
Also the golfer is a scratch and very good ball striker.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Look at the clubface in the punch iron. Im not criticizing the swing at all. I was just wondering if it has ever been considered as a problem. Veeeery open. I think he backs up his hips through the ball to square it up.
 
Look at the clubface in the punch iron. Im not criticizing the swing at all. I was just wondering if it has ever been considered as a problem. Veeeery open. I think he backs up his hips through the ball to square it up.

Compare to the driver actually the punch shot looks the best path wise and the ball flight was perfect, almost straight, it really looks that he's swinging more left with the punch but he has to I guess with the ball back.

Kevin Please expain "backs up his hips through the ball to square it up". isn't the kinetic chain snap? I just can't see any problems with his pivot, it's really good.

ClubFace problems? yes when he leaves it open to the 6 inside out path or when rolling he's left wrist (twistaway) too much trying to save it and hooks it of the planet with 8 inside out path...
I don't no, I see your swing, I see tiger, hogan, clubface looks the same 3 feet before impact (last time parallel) - it's either toe up (45 degree open) or maybe bit more open or less (40-60 degree open).
Through out his downswing clubface squares up from 90 open at the top to square to the PATH at impact (scratch golfer).

That's how I see it -
Quote:
Originally Posted by erobbins
ok.. I don't get it.
if someone's path was 3° in-out every time, and the face was varying degrees of open or closed, how is that a path problem? the path is consistent!

Brian answer -
Let me do a better job this time...more realistic.
Ball #1: Path 3° inside-out, Face 0° square, big draw left of target

Golfer to Self: "Boy I must have come over the top of that one, I won't this (next) time."

Ball #2: Path 6° inside-out, Face 3° open, nice draw at the target

Golfer to Self: "Boy I sure am glad I learned not to come over the top."

Ball #3: Path 6° inside-out, face 7° open, push cut in the water.

Golfer to Self: "I can't believe I blocked that one. I'll 'release' on this next one."

Ball #4: Path 6° inside-out, face 1° closed, broken window in house on left
PATH PROBLEM!
 
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Look at the clubface in the punch iron. Im not criticizing the swing at all. I was just wondering if it has ever been considered as a problem. Veeeery open. I think he backs up his hips through the ball to square it up.


Kevin, When you say clubface very open, is it open to his plane? to his start up setup? to top of his backswing? open to what?
Let's take a position prior to impact, middle of downswing when the shaft is parallel to target line the toe is straight up to sky |, is it 45 degree open? if the toe is pointing left 45 degree to left \ (down the line view) is it still 90 degree open? if the toe is pointing 45 degree right / is it 0 degree open?
I know it's 2D and camera parallex but that's what I've got...

I know for sure that at the top when it's parallel to left arm it's 90 degree open.

I'm taking a few videos from different angles (High angle FrontUpTheLine) and I have a feeling that the face angle+loft relative to left wrist/plane is somehow a bit tricky then I thought...I think I start to understand what Brian is saying about the FLAT spot.

Please explain "backs up his hips through the ball to square it up"?
Thanks
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
When you look at the DL view of the punch iron stop it the last time the club is horizontal to the ground. Most top ball strikers will have turned the face to the ball way more than your friend. Thus he cant get on top of his left hip or he'd shank it so he kinda rounds off his hips and gets into his left heel a bunch and fits the club in there.
 
When you look at the DL view of the punch iron stop it the last time the club is horizontal to the ground. Most top ball strikers will have turned the face to the ball way more than your friend. Thus he cant get on top of his left hip or he'd shank it so he kinda rounds off his hips and gets into his left heel a bunch and fits the club in there.

Nice observation Kevin and better explanation. I have seen this difference in that same spot in ds in the tour swings and then decent players and then amateurs higher handicaps and it seems the club gets progressively more open along the way.

Not to say this guy can't hit good shots just has to do this hip back up to keep from real bad shots.

Steve
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
And by the way....

If you look at my video you"ll see a similar position which is part of the reason at the time of that filming i couldnt play dead in a war movie. But four months of perfecting a good takeaway, tumble and a dose of right arm FATS took care of that!
 
Kevin,

It would be cool to see a few folks swings from DTL release point to at least both arms straight or just past that point to see how much solid strikers really rotate the sweetspot to and through impact.

It seems to me that this rotation is alot less than I ever thought before, pre BManz website for me.

Matt
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Kevin,

It would be cool to see a few folks swings from DTL release point to at least both arms straight or just past that point to see how much solid strikers really rotate the sweetspot to and through impact.

It seems to me that this rotation is alot less than I ever thought before, pre BManz website for me.

Matt

Hardly any rotation at all.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
That would be on the extreme exaggerated side of it but yes, it does and that can be a good training way of getting rid of a clubhead first left arm wedge rotated backswing.........which usually produces garbage.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Kevin, in other words, virtually all of the rotation/pronation proper-timing instruction is nothing more than bullshit. A proper takeaway with a good pivot will take care of most of the clubface issues.

No no no. There is most definately rotation of the face. What you said helps, sure. But for most backswings the face will get turned to the plane at some point and will need to be turned off of it. It just happens earlier for the better player which allows him to use the right arm more effectively rather than worry about pivot braking and late squaring issues or late flips. There just isnt much rotation through the hitting area. Very few people have totally unconcious face squaring things in their swings, mostly the true elite player.
 
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