Manzella's stance on Head positioning and movement

Status
Not open for further replies.

Brian Manzella

Administrator
These are my (Brian Manzella) answers to the above questions.

This debate needs some closure and the best way for that—in my opinion—is a review.

What better way to start a review than to state your case—one more time—to the readers.

Where should the HEAD be at address?
In general, I position the golfer to be tilted from the hips enough to get the belt line close to pointing at the ball. I then create what I call “golf arms”: slightly inward rotation with the right forearm on plane. I guess I am setting the wedges, but to be honest, I prefer Standard Address for most players, so the left arm wedge is really not ‘set.’ From there the right hand being lower on the club takes care of any slight axis tilt.

I then place the ball in whatever ball position I am using for that golfer, and wherever that ‘puts’ the head, that’s where I leave it.

I never, ever put the head some place, just to have it there.


Do you teach whatever that is, the same to everyone?
No.

Do you make any exceptions?
For someone needing help to get to the inside-aft quadrant for whatever reason, I position the tailbone a bit closer to the target and then the head slightly to the right to maintain the same ‘balance.’

For the golfer needing to swinging to far to the right, I position them slightly the other way.

These are not absolutes though. I’ll create an address that helps the player with the pattern, like pre-turned hips, etc.


What should the HEAD do during the swing?
It should move as little as possible. But I really don’t want the base of the neck to move at all.

Do you teach whatever that is, the same to everyone?
Nope.

Do you make any exceptions?
All the time.

First, slicers have—in general—horrible pivots. Their head moves forward and tilts left, the hips slide way right, the shoulders turn way to steep. Once I fix the clubface, they now have a new need, to hit the inside-aft quadrant. To get them to do this, I fix the address position and then observe their ‘new’ pivots. It will often still need lots of work. This work requires—almost always—a more Standard Hip Turn, and a Flatter Shoulder Turn. If they STILL can’t make a backswing pivot that allows for them to come right down plane, I get them to turn around their spine, which 99% of the time, requires some head movement to the right on the backswing—but next to ZERO base of the neck movement. A classic shoulder turn takeaway, you might want to call it.

Hookers almost always need the opposite, they really to turn less and less flat. They have developed those problems trying to swing more out to right field, to “play” their hook. These golfers need the clubface/leakage issues addressed, but often I will fix the plane line first. This process is always sped up by creating less axis tilt, more forward ball position and the resultant more centered head.
These golfers need a steeper shoulder turn, less hip turn, etc. and they are almost always helped by a right forearm pickup, delayed hip turn, and less axis tilt on the downstroke.

Again, these are not absolutes at all, just generalities. I ALWAYS let the imperatives dictate the components and all the parts of the pattern.[8D]:D;)
 
I prefer minimal head movement, but when your a senior, it's tougher. Fexibility is the unfair advantage. This is why Leadbetter uses guys like Howell to demo his swing instruction. His own swing looks a lot different. And the Hat is probably a lot more flexible than your average Joe.
 

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
Joe, Ben would say his head doesnt move but it's obviously flexibility issues. As for 12" its more like 3 or 4". Ben sits on the golf club to show he stays centred through the swing..
 
quote:Originally posted by BigBadDonkey

Bear in mind the camera movement there which exacerbates the head movement. But yes, there is some lateral motion for sure.

What camera movement?
 

rundmc

Banned
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

Brian, why does Ben Doyle move his head 12" to the right on the BS and leave it there for the DS?

Would this not also have something to do with his left arm being bent through the ball? Or not?
 

Jayro1

New
quote:Originally posted by brianman

Ben's head moves a bunch.

He still hits it damn good.

Cool?

Does it move back to where it started? or stay back? or someplace in between?
 

Tom Bartlett

Administrator
Where he moves it to, is where it stays until after follow through. Ben always told me you could either set up where it (your head) belonged or you could move it to that position.
 
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by BigBadDonkey

Bear in mind the camera movement there which exacerbates the head movement. But yes, there is some lateral motion for sure.

What camera movement?

Joe, the camera (the one filming) moves very slightly to the right as Ben moves back, which gives the impression he is moving off the ball more than he is. No biggy but I though I would mention it with all this talk of camera angles etc. :) .
 
quote:Originally posted by Tom Bartlett

Where he moves it to, is where it stays until after follow through. Ben always told me you could either set up where it (your head) belonged or you could move it to that position.

How does he know how much to move it? This looks like a hand/eye coordination thing to me, which is totally contrary to what HK wrote about Impact Fix and how precise the player needs to be.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
These threads go sideways way too often.

Please comment on the post that started the thread.

Or, we could do a thread on the swing flaws of teachers.
 
Great post by the way Brian. Alot of this stuff I agree with byt just going out there and workinghitting thousands of balls.
You sure have got out there and dug it out in the dirt and worked it out for yourself. That's what I like. You don't get many teachers offering options.. there is too much 'to the letter' .
 
quote:Originally posted by brianman

These threads go sideways way too often.

Please comment on the post that started the thread.

Or, we could do a thread on the swing flaws of teachers.

Nice Brian - we get down to brass tacks with a concrete example, which is exactly on topic, and your response is that I'm going sideways! :(

Ben's the one going sideways, but I'm not saying that's necessarily a flaw, just asking HOW he always compresses the ball doing that. Most would hit the ball while jumping on a pogo stick if they could strike it as well as Ben!
 

rundmc

Banned
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by brianman

These threads go sideways way too often.

Please comment on the post that started the thread.

Or, we could do a thread on the swing flaws of teachers.

Nice Brian - we get down to brass tacks with a concrete example, which is exactly on topic, and your response is that I'm going sideways! :(

Ben's the one going sideways, but I'm not saying that's necessarily a flaw, just asking HOW he always compresses the ball doing that. Most would hit the ball while jumping on a pogo stick if they could strike it as well as Ben!

Seems like a valid question to me. Nobody is debating HOW WELL HE STRIKES IT just HOW he strikes so well is the question.
 
quote:Originally posted by brianman

Ben's head moves a bunch.

He still hits it damn good.

Cool?


Cool. So, Brian, what is your opinion on why Ben moves his head and what reason does Ben give?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top