Max Spin Wedge Shots

[kc8kir]

Can we talk about how to achieve maximum spin wedge shots? I play on courses with really fast greens and need to learn a land and stop, or land and backup shot. I'm talking about generating the kind of spin that makes the ball dance like it's made out of ballata. I'm constantly hitting shots that land within a foot of the hole but won't stop. All the articles in magazines about "lean left and hit down on the ball" never seem to work, even if I get ball first contact. What gives? It almost feels like a joke at this point, or a conspiracy. I watch footage of players back in the day hitting short irons that absolutely stick to the green like flies to a sugar-trap. Am I maybe playing the wrong wedges, the wrong shafts, the wrong ball etc? Why does my ball bounce off the green like it's made out of concrete, instead of sticking to it?

I currently play ProV1s, Adams Wedges (with clean grooves), and the stock wedge shaft.

Let's talk about how to get real spin on the ball.

 

[curtisj76]

Get some of them box grooves.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

4 main things create wedge spin:

1) Spinny urethane ball like the Pro V1, Cally Tour i, Srixon Z Start, Bridgestone B330S etc.
2) One of the high spin wedge faces like a Cally MD wedge, Cleveland Zip Groove, TM Z Grooe, etc.
3) Very TIGHT clean fairway lies where there is not going to be some grass getting in between the club/ball
4) FIRM greens

Now a lot of people think, huh firm greens? Yes because if you have very soft greens where the ball mark is very deep this 'deadens' the spin of the ball significally.

With the above 4 and a blow that strikes down the ball you should be fine. However to increase spin you have to learn how to put cut spin on the ball and also learn how to get extremely EXTREMELY perfect contact where you are just grabbing the bottom of the ball with the lower couple grooves. Tom Wishon has proved the #1 determinent in actual spin off the wedge is the measurement of how rough the face is and not grooves. Grooves play a higher effect when there is grass in the way. So make sure you are really making super clean contact with a little cut spin and the with the right ball/wedge you will be sucking it back no problem.

 

[GPM1985]

Yeah, I just wanted to second Jim's focus on clean contact. Gotta nip that sucker.

 

[mgranato]

With respect to true hard and greens, I would add loft to Jim's list. Not necessarily the loft of the clubface, but the angle in which the ball is descending on the green. The steeper the ball descends the less the ball bounces forward. We have hard and fast greens as well, and I always try to "stop" the ball with loft over adding spin - much easier to predict the reaction consistently.

 

[mjstrong]

my thoughts

Hitting down on the ball while still releasing the club. Kind of feel like you're trying to let the ball roll up the clubface. That's how I try to spin it a little more than normal.

I am not sure that I agree with Jim's statement above about needing to put cut (I am assuming fade) spin on the ball in order to spin it back more. I have always found that my little draw wedge spins back more than my straighter wedge shot. Is this because I am hitting down less in order to hit it straighter?

 

[kc8kir]

Thanks for all the tips everyone.

I really however don't understand the tip "Try to feel like you let the ball roll up the clubface". That's like telling me to "once the ball is on the clubface, bounce it twice, then send it to the target". The descriptor is just impractical for someone who hasn't ever gotten the feel for the shot. I had an instructor who said something similar "you gotta hit that wedge and make the ball use all the grooves on the clubface". "Ok," I thought "I'll talk tough to that golf ball and remind it that if it doesn't use all the grooves I'm gonna be really dissappointed". It's like saying "keep your head down".

Sorry to vent on that one, but "roll it up the clubface" is one of those modern instruction cliche' tips that just doesn't communicate the how. Tell me to "shake the sugar" on the ball, or "wallop the clubhead" into the ball. Then I can relate to a discrete physical action and sensation to produce the desired ball flight. Then I can experience the sensation of success and relate it to an action.

 

[savydan]

How about:

"Use/feel the bounce on the bottom of the club."

 

[Damon Lucas]

Beyond Jim's list, I would add,

1. Shredding the paint on the bottom of the ball,
2. Lots of wrist action back and through,
3. Lots of clubhead speed at the ball,
4. A left leaning 'enough' set up that encourages a steepish downswing, but allows the necessary wrist action in the follow through,
5. A fade feel creates more spin than the draw feel when working with these other factors,
6. A soft left elbow in the follow through

Also, I don't think that it is a question of firm or soft. Yes, more firm than soft, but there needs to enough moisture and grass cover for the ball to take, grip the surface, and juice back, and then enough green speed and slope to exaggerate the effect.

Chk Chk Boom!

 

[mjstrong]

Re-try

Thanks for all the tips everyone.

I really however don't understand the tip "Try to feel like you let the ball roll up the clubface".

See the sentence before it for my description of how; hit down on the ball, but while the club is releasing. It's not a shot where we want to hold the hands ahead of the club; let the clubhead pass the hands as it hits down on the ball.

 

[mjstrong]

Beyond Jim's list, I would add,

6. A soft left elbow in the follow through

This is a great point that I don't see enough people do. To help do it properly, you need a nice chest turn though the ball.

 

[softconsult]

Contrarian viewpoint.

Perfecting this is going to require a lot of practice and even then it may be that you don't possess the hand eye coordination of a tour player. If you get it perfected, then you face the challenge of hitting it the perfect distance.

The pro's do hit this shot, but relatively not all that often.

You might give some consideration to learning to land it a little shorter and allow for some run out. Statistically, you will be better off. This is not my original thought. Many well known instructors preach this approach to chipping and pitching and state that the Pro spin and stop on dime technique is somewhat beyond the skill level of even Pro's.

 

[Damon Lucas]

I agree with you 100%, Steve!
But not everybody is always looking to hit the shot that allows them to score the best.
It is also a shot that you can learn and then work backwards to the more convential pitch that you described.
It is a lot of fun!
Sometimes you 'have' to do it - situation demands it, albeit very rarely.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I agree with you 100%, Steve!
But not everybody is always looking to hit the shot that allows them to score the best.
It is also a shot that you can learn and then work backwards to the more convential pitch that you described.
It is a lot of fun!
Sometimes you 'have' to do it - situation demands it, albeit very rarely.

Very true; however i like the mid sole pitch for it's heigh/spin/ease of use for a "spinnier" pitch shot. The tour pitch is harder but it just takes practice to get.