Mental Swing Problem

[JBrock]

Hello all, been lurking for a while but now looking for some swing advice. I have a problem where on the course I can't stop myself from turning my head to watch the ball which in turn causes my right shoulder to dip. Usually this causes me to hit fat or if I do still make decent contact, it will slice. I would say this happens on about 60% of my shots on the course and I do it on all types of shots, from drives to putts. I just can't keep my head down. I know the problem is mental but I'm am having the worst time trying to overcome it. On the range I get into a grove and can hit great balls repeatedly but the course is a different story. Everytime I nail the ground I take a quick mental snapshot of my body and head position and it always the same, I'm looking downline - not at the ball, my right shoulder is way down, and my right arm is bent/bowed at the elbow in an attempt to adjust for the change in distance between me and the ball.

So, any suggestions on a cure? I'm looking for more that just "Don't look up", trust me, I try. Maybe someone can share with me how they overcame a similar mental block. I'm a high 20's handicapper but know that I could do so much better if I can overcome this. I can as easily par a hole as I can triple or quad it. I'm completly inconsistent on the course. My good shot are straight to a slight draw, driver an average of 275, 8 iron about 160.

Thanks for any help,
Brock

 

[EdZ]

Check your address position and balance, and keep your spine angle. You don't 'look up', your spine angle moves. Also, I agree with Hogan, that you want to keep the right knee flex constant, which should help you maintain your posture.

 

[6bee1dee]

When is it that you look at the ball and dip the right shoulder? Take away? If it is check spine angle at address. The left arm and shoulder should move smoothly under the chin.

Location Location Location in real estate. Spine angle spine angle spine angle in golf

 

[JBrock]

Edz: By spine angle I assume you mean the angle between my spine and the ground? If so, any suggestions on how to prevent that?

6bee1dee: I look up on the downswing, before impact. At impact I will already be looking towards the target line, not at the ball.

When it happens, I don't swing across my body, my hands don't roll to release the club, and I have a chicken winged follow through.

Thanks guys for the help.

 

[EdZ]

Yes, and best to check it in a mirror, or on film. You want to turn 'around' the spine. See Brian's setup and pivot article(s).

 

[Archie Swivel]

My guess (and I'm totally a student, not an instructor, so discount what I say accordingly) is that you have misdiagnosed your problem. I tend to focus ad nauseum on what I think is the problem to the exclusion of everything else. I'd say you probably by now are one of the best one of us out there at keeping your head down. Read Brian's article on the perfect pivot. He explains the importance of rotating around your spine as opposed to rotating around the center of your torso. If you turn your left shoulder over your right knee while rotating around the base of the neck and keeping your tail bone still, your right shoulder may not have room to drop much since it will never really be much higher than the left to begin with it. If what I say does not make sense, would somebody now please correct me.

Archie Swivel
The Apprentice

 

[Brian Manzella]

I once taught a guy with a fused neck.

We do NOT swing around our heads, we rotate our heads 90degrees to the left shoulder during the backswing and 180degrees toward the left shoulder near impact.

Like Alex Morrison said: Point your chin to the right thru impact (you do this by TURNING your head to the right as you turn your shoulders to the left).

 

[Archie Swivel]

Brian,

What do you think about EdZ's support of Hogan's theory of maintaining a constant right knee flex. (You told me today, but I forgot how to explain it mechanically)

The Arch Man

 

[Brian Manzella]

Hogan DID NOT DO IT!!

 

[lagster]

You have hit on one of the most misunderstood things in golf!
Of all the swings I have seen on video, I can't think of anyone that looked up, except for David Duvall, and A. Sorenstam. They allowed their heads to rotate, but their spine angles(like axels) remained constant through impact.

Thinking about keeping your head down is probably the cause of your problem, not the problem. Let your eyes follow the ball. You look at the right inside quadrant, but immediately after the ball is struck, the head and eyes should start rotating and face the target. You should finished balanced, with your head and right shoulder over your left leg, and the right shoulder a little lower that your left.

This should also help prevent you from having neck problems. Allow your eyes to follow the ball, and face the target. This may also help the chicken wing.

Much of this I learned from the late Tom Tomasello. He would say, "You must face the target!"

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:


6bee1dee: I look up on the downswing, before impact. At impact I will already be looking towards the target line, not at the ball.

When it happens, I don't swing across my body, my hands don't roll to release the club, and I have a chicken winged follow through.

Looking down target line, ala David Duval is not the same as looking up, or coming out of a spine angel. I agree with Archie that you have misdiagnosed your problem.

When it happens, I don't swing across my body, my hands don't roll to release the club, and I have a chicken winged follow through.


This is a whole new set of problems corrected by an improved pivot. Try giving up any head thoughts for a while and think about swinging the handle (read hands) through impact. I know this may not make sense but....
think of the club (the shaft) going in a straight line towards the target, like you are going to throw a spear underhanded with both hands close together (that is the hand grip. The shaft ("spear") can only move in this linear line. For the clubhead to meet the ball, the body must pivot which will swivel the hands and club into impact.
This should improved the body motion and help release the hands and arms chasing the ball flight. Its a start.

see what happens you lurk too long. LOL

 

[bts]

quote:Originally posted by JBrock

Hello all, been lurking for a while but now looking for some swing advice. I have a problem where on the course I can't stop myself from turning my head to watch the ball which in turn causes my right shoulder to dip. Usually this causes me to hit fat or if I do still make decent contact, it will slice. I would say this happens on about 60% of my shots on the course and I do it on all types of shots, from drives to putts. I just can't keep my head down. I know the problem is mental but I'm am having the worst time trying to overcome it. On the range I get into a grove and can hit great balls repeatedly but the course is a different story. Everytime I nail the ground I take a quick mental snapshot of my body and head position and it always the same, I'm looking downline - not at the ball, my right shoulder is way down, and my right arm is bent/bowed at the elbow in an attempt to adjust for the change in distance between me and the ball.

So, any suggestions on a cure? I'm looking for more that just "Don't look up", trust me, I try. Maybe someone can share with me how they overcame a similar mental block. I'm a high 20's handicapper but know that I could do so much better if I can overcome this. I can as easily par a hole as I can triple or quad it. I'm completly inconsistent on the course. My good shot are straight to a slight draw, driver an average of 275, 8 iron about 160.

Thanks for any help,
Brock

You’re just anxious to know the result (how the shot looks like or where the ball goes), especially on the course under tough situation or with less (or no) confidence.

Start to fix it by trusting the stroke and not peeking the putt, then the chip, the pitch, the half swing, and then the full swing. The shot won’t go bad if you make the right impact. It's against people's instinct and thus extremely tough to do. Isn’t that why we play this game?

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Hogan DID NOT DO IT!!

Que?

He came fairly close, no? Not a completely 'frozen' knee, but a 'still' knee through the begining of transition.

By contrast to Morrison's approach, and yours, a 'stable' right knee.

 

[DivotDelight]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Like Alex Morrison said: Point your chin to the right thru impact (you do this by TURNING your head to the right as you turn your shoulders to the left).

Never heard of this nugget. Does turning your head to the right thru impact help keep the head and upper body behind the ball and prevent sliding?

 

[JBrock]

Thanks guys for the help and suggestions. I'm going to the range tonight to try them out and have a couple of rounds planned for the weekend. I'll let you know how it works out.

Brock