Mid Body hands

[DDL]

I had better success yesterday not using my usual mid body hands setup. I set up with my hands positioned a lot more forward , using the natural forward lean built into the 5 iron, while keeping my hips and shoulders square. Hit a few great shots. Better than I had struck the ball in half a year. With mid body hands, even though I knew my hands are supposed to be a lot more further forward at impact, my body's memory cache overrides my brain.

One adjustment needed was the pivot, especially the right hip. In order to get the right elbow and hands to travel in a straight line path up plane to the top, I felt I was reverse pivoting and turning vertically. Felt like I was completley straightening my right leg, and even felt I was sliding my right hip to the right. Mimicking that feeling while using a mirror from a face on view, I discovered I was actually rotating my right hip much further back , and not as much towards the target. My first move feels like my right hip is rotating back to clear a path for the wedges. Hands controlled pivot wannabe?

I am now trying to incorporate the image of flying crowbars instead of wedges. Wedges just don't float my boat. I have a bag full of those wedges that one sticks under doors. Sounds so effeminate. Or an image of Kung Fu movies where the shaolin monks smash vases an rocks with their forearms.

I think I was fooled all this time into thinking my hands were at imapact position at impact. I now understand that the hands need to be a lot lower and more forward at impact which can only happen if the weges(or crowbars) maintain their alinments.

Ed always mentions those figure 8 straps. IS this TGM , HK, flying wedge compatible?

Thanks

 

[6bee1dee]

Wedge is a wedge. It has a strong mechanical advantage in physics - ahh so it is feminine !

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by DDL

I had better success yesterday not using my usual mid body hands setup. I set up with my hands positioned a lot more forward , using the natural forward lean built into the 5 iron, while keeping my hips and shouldesr square. Hit a few great shots. Better than I had struck the ball in half a year. With mid body hands, even though I knew my hands are supposed to be a lot more further forward at impact, my body's memory cache overrides my brain.

Invest one or two minutes a day gripping a 48" long, 5/8" diameter wooden dowel. Assume the Grip with your Left Wrist Flat and your Right Wrist Bent. Grip down about six to eight inches from the top of the dowel so that the shaft runs directly underneath your Left Forearm. With the Hands waist-high and also in Address Position, Grip and re-Grip -- eyes open and eyes closed -- luxuriating in the delicious Feel of Impact. Do this every day -- two minutes a day for seven days and not fourteen minutes one day a week -- and the setup you found so helpful will soon be as natural as breathing.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Glad to see you liking your new hands at address position, DDL.

But, If there is one thing that has helped almost all students I have worked with in my 22 years of teaching, it is Mid-Body Hands.

But...ALL of my students don't do it, and some are better because they don't.

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Glad to see you liking your new hands at address position, DDL.

But, If there is one thing that has helped almost all students I have worked with in my 22 years of teaching, it is Mid-Body Hands.

But...ALL of my students don't do it, and some are better because they don't.

[Bold by Holenone/Yoda.]

I should add to my post above that the Hands at Address should always be at Mid-Body. However, it is not at all necessary for the Mid-Body to be at a Mid-Body location! [8D] In fact, for several reasons it is very helpful to Shift the Mid-Body (the Hips and with them, the Weight) just slightly left at Address. This is true whether the Hands are in Standard Address Position (Bent Left Wrist per 10-9-A) or in Impact Fix Address position (Flat Left Wrist per 10-9-B).

Study the Lower Body Address 'Sets' (and the relative Hands Location and Wrist Conditions) of Ben Hogan, George Knudson, Lee Trevino and Jack Nicklaus.

 

[ej20]

quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Glad to see you liking your new hands at address position, DDL.

But, If there is one thing that has helped almost all students I have worked with in my 22 years of teaching, it is Mid-Body Hands.

But...ALL of my students don't do it, and some are better because they don't.

[Bold by Holenone/Yoda.]

I should add to my post above that the Hands at Address should always be at Mid-Body. However, it is not at all necessary for the Mid-Body to be at a Mid-Body location! [8D] In fact, for several reasons it is very helpful to Shift the Mid-Body (the Hips and with them, the Weight) just slightly left at Address. This is true whether the Hands are in Standard Address Position (Bent Left Wrist per 10-9-A) or in Impact Fix Address position (Flat Left Wrist per 10-9-B).

Study the Lower Body Address 'Sets' (and the relative Hands Location and Wrist Conditions) of Ben Hogan, George Knudson, Lee Trevino and Jack Nicklaus.

That is a great post Yoda.Nicklaus and Trevino in particular, display a very definite leaning of the lower body towards the target when they set up to the ball,even with the driver.Their hands look like they are pressed forward but is probably closer to mid body.Not many people care to discuss this aspect of the setup.

 

[dclaryjr]

quote:Originally posted by holenone
Invest one or two minutes a day gripping a 48" long, 5/8" diameter wooden dowel. Assume the Grip with your Left Wrist Flat and your Right Wrist Bent. Grip down about six to eight inches from the top of the dowel so that the shaft runs directly underneath your Left Forearm. With the Hands waist-high and also in Address Position, Grip and re-Grip -- eyes open and eyes closed -- luxuriating in the delicious Feel of Impact. Do this every day -- two minutes a day for seven days and not fourteen minutes one day a week -- and the setup you found so helpful will soon be as natural as breathing.

HN1, I have a question on dowel work. I've seen pictures where you are working with two dowels, where you have the left wrist bent, and held up against the right forearm. What are you demonstrating with that?

Thanks!

 

[DDL]

quote:I should add to my post above that the Hands at Address should always be at Mid-Body. However, it is not at all necessary for the Mid-Body to be at a Mid-Body location! [8D] In fact, for several reasons it is very helpful to Shift the Mid-Body (the Hips and with them, the Weight) just slightly left at Address. This is true whether the Hands are in Standard Address Position (Bent Left Wrist per 10-9-A) or in Impact Fix Address position (Flat Left Wrist per 10-9-B).

Study the Lower Body Address 'Sets' (and the relative Hands Location and Wrist Conditions) of Ben Hogan, George Knudson, Lee Trevino and Jack Nicklaus.

So with the lower body shifted to the left, do the hips and shoulders remain square to the target line, or do they open?

Oh darn it, I was starting to get comfortable with more upper body tilt to accomodate my hands more forward at address.

On the backswing, should one then slide the lower body to the right to the "normal" mid-body position or keep them slid to the left like they were at address? And on the downswing, since there was already a pre-slide to the left at address, does that mean no further sliding occurs?

I now set up with my hands in front of my left thigh, thus getting my groin in front of my hands requires a lot of slide.Anyone for a game of twister?

 

[Turfspanker]

quote:Originally posted by DDL

So with the lower body shifted to the left, do the hips and shoulders remain square to the target line, or do they open?

Oh darn it, I was starting to get comfortable with more upper body tilt to accomodate my hands more forward at address.

On the backswing, should one then slide the lower body to the right to the "normal" mid-body position or keep them slid to the left like they were at address? And on the downswing, since there was already a pre-slide to the left at address, does that mean no further sliding occurs?

I now set up with my hands in front of my left thigh, thus getting my groin in front of my hands requires a lot of slide.Anyone for a game of twister?

DDL,

Not twister at all. Don't overcook it, the hands are still mid body at address but the weight is decidedly leftward, even though you are fairly well balanced between left and right. The head and hands are mid body.
I notice the feel of pressing the dirt DOWNWARD with my left foot as though I'm trying to flatten a mound. The setup feels Hoganish and you feel as though you can come DOWN into the ball with all you've got. From that address position, you feel as though you can launch your body targetward into a full sprint if you wished.

Turfspanker

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by dclaryjr
HN1, I have a question on dowel work. I've seen pictures where you are working with two dowels, where you have the left wrist bent, and held up against the right forearm. What are you demonstrating with that?

Thanks!

I am demonstrating the fact that at Impact, the Right Forearm is On Plane and pointing at the Plane Line. However, it points well ahead of the Ball.

Quoting Homer: "I had a hard time accepting that because it is totally out of line with everything else. Then came the dawn: The Right Forearm has its own Angle of Approach."

The Right Forearm Angle of Approach can also be used to visualize the precise Delivery Path of the Hands Down Plane (7-23 and 10-23-A), but that's for another post.

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by Turfspanker

quote:Originally posted by DDL

So with the lower body shifted to the left, do the hips and shoulders remain square to the target line, or do they open?

Oh darn it, I was starting to get comfortable with more upper body tilt to accomodate my hands more forward at address.

On the backswing, should one then slide the lower body to the right to the "normal" mid-body position or keep them slid to the left like they were at address? And on the downswing, since there was already a pre-slide to the left at address, does that mean no further sliding occurs?

I now set up with my hands in front of my left thigh, thus getting my groin in front of my hands requires a lot of slide.Anyone for a game of twister?

DDL,

Not twister at all. Don't overcook it, the hands are still mid body at address but the weight is decidedly leftward, even though you are fairly well balanced between left and right. The head and hands are mid body.
I notice the feel of pressing the dirt DOWNWARD with my left foot as though I'm trying to flatten a mound. The setup feels Hoganish and you feel as though you can come DOWN into the ball with all you've got. From that address position, you feel as though you can launch your body targetward into a full sprint if you wished.

Turfspanker

Great post, Turfspanker. You learned your lessons well!

 

[DDL]

My hands aren't at midbody; they are in front of my left thigh. Is there something wrong with doing it that way? Are you certain the hands should ALWAYS be in a relative midbody position? If you take a look at Chuck Evans' Ebook, you will see on page 23 that he sets up with his hands in front of his left thigh with a driver , wedge and 5 iron. His body is centered. Someone please refer me to a photo of someone who has his hands like Chuck has, left of his spine, but in front of the groin because he shifted his lower body to the left.

Evn if I slightly shifted my weight to the left as Turfspanker described, my hands are stil infront of my left thigh.

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by DDL

My hands aren't at midbody; they are in front of my left thigh. Is there something wrong with doing it that way? Are you certain the hands should ALWAYS be in a relative midbody position? Even if I slightly shifted my weight to the left as Turfspanker described, my hands are stil in front of my left thigh.

My only point was that if your Hands are Mid-Body in a Standard Address position, and you move them slightly forward (by simply Flattening the Bent Left Wrist), then you can restore the Body/Hands relationship with a slight Hip Slide left. We're talking 'one pill' here, not the whole bottle. Study Photo 10-9-A versus Photo 10-8-A.

 

[rundmc]

quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by dclaryjr
HN1, I have a question on dowel work. I've seen pictures where you are working with two dowels, where you have the left wrist bent, and held up against the right forearm. What are you demonstrating with that?

Thanks!

I am demonstrating the fact that at Impact, the Right Forearm is On Plane and pointing at the Plane Line. However, it points well ahead of the Ball.

Quoting Homer: "I had a hard time accepting that because it is totally out of line with everything else. Then came the dawn: The Right Forearm has its own Angle of Approach."

The Right Forearm Angle of Approach can also be used to visualize the precise Delivery Path of the Hands Down Plane (7-23 and 10-23-A), but that's for another post.

Hey Yoda!

Could we please get that post on the Right Forearm Angle of Approach and visualizing the delivery path? This is something particular that I was trying to get my brain around.

Also, you get my turkey leg this year . . . (heck every year!)for all the unbelievable insight you provide on this and other forums. Many many thanks!

R

 

[Brian Manzella]

I still feel the mid-body mid-hips address is the best...but of course not the only...

 

[DDL]

One huge benefit I received from setting up with hands in front of the left thigh at/near impact position is the discovery that hands at impact are a lot more forward from my viewpoint than I had realized. By setting up with midbody hands, my hands "naturally' returned at impact to a location just slightly to the left of my groin or near my inner thigh. My hands were not far enough ahead of the ball and clubhead at impact. At setup, I say to myself " hands ahead of ball, hands ahead of ball" and visualize my hands at the outer portion of my left thigh at impact.

IMHO, midbody hands is not for beginners because that setup requires a compensation on the downswing to get the hnads in the correct position. I understand midbody hands at setup is preferred by some because it is easier to get the club on plane at takeaway, but with the non-mid body hands setup, one can do the same thing by getting the right hip out of the way sooner.

Now I got to get my bearings on the driver. I may be overdoing it with the woods. Ball position is at the outer edge of my left shoulder, so impact hands location is in the "scary" Faxon zone; outside my left shoulder or close to it! For some reason, if I use the same hands setup location with the driver as I do with the irons, it feels like I am not forward enough. I can't accurately determine what the clubshaft forward lean on the driver is. Too many damned curves on my Great Big Bertha 2. Driver still a mystery. However, I think I have found a heavy duty irons defogger.

 

[armourall]

quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by DDL

My hands aren't at midbody; they are in front of my left thigh. Is there something wrong with doing it that way? Are you certain the hands should ALWAYS be in a relative midbody position? Even if I slightly shifted my weight to the left as Turfspanker described, my hands are stil in front of my left thigh.

My only point was that if your Hands are Mid-Body in a Standard Address position, and you move them slightly forward (by simply Flattening the Bent Left Wrist), then you can restore the Body/Hands relationship with a slight Hip Slide left. We're talking 'one pill' here, not the whole bottle. Study Photo 10-9-A versus Photo 10-8-A.

Would that slight Hip Slide be toward Right Field for an Angle of Approach (Hitting) procedure? And would the Hands also move in that same direction when Flattening the Left Wrist (rather than moving parallel to the Target Line)?

 

[armourall]

bump

 

[DDL]

Looks like the driver has very little forward lean when grounded. Doesn't seem there is much margin for error for impact fix hand position. With irons, I think I can get away with having my hands too far forward , thus delofting the club. However, with the driver, hands too far forward at impact, I probably eliminate any loft altogether( or even negative loft), thus explaining some of the 5 feet off the gorund line drives or knucklers I sometimes produce. Hands too far back just a bit, and I risk decelreation, an ascending blow, and hitting under the ball, thus producing those ubiquitous popups.