More than 4 Accumulators??

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swing-geek

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I just got introduced to HK, TGM, and these forums a week ago and it has been a great experience. Lots of intelligent input here. And Homer's work "The Golf Machine" is quite impressive. As a working engineer for many years, I really appreciate his analytical approach to the golf swing.

But something just seemed to be missing in the 4 accumulators and it finally occurred to me today what it was. Before I even state what I think the missing piece is, it may be covered by accumulator 4, but I have yet to see that it is.

Accumulators 2 and 3 pretty much cover what happens in the wrist. Accumulator 1 covers the right elbow. But Accumulator 4 seems to only cover half the vector of how the left arm moves. It describes how the arm folds across the body, but not how it lifts.

Accumulator 5 would be the angle formed by the spine and the left arm. This angle must be measured from the "behind the shot" view at address and the "front on" view of the golfer at the top of the swing. Most players would be around 20 - 30 degrees at address (depending on club selected) and 150 degrees at the top (guestimating here).

Ah well, that's my two cents - what do you all think?
 
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6bee1dee

New
What power does it provide? These are Power Accumulators.

Power accumulators 1-2-3 are associated with their corresponding pressure points. The first three are all behind the shaft and on the hands holding the grip.

Acc4 and PP4 are on the left shoulder. The only ones off the hands and are pivot related.

I sometimes think Four is an extension of the flat left wrist but it is just my take.
 
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swing-geek

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The "pulling" action of the left arm in the golf swing is a combination of pulling down and pulling across the body - the resultant angled vector. Ideally, Acc 1 (right elbow) is actually used as a power source in the golf swing by "pushing" along this resultant angled vector, not just along the component angle formed by Acc 4 (folded left arm). Accumulator 1 + accumulator 4 = a baseball type horizontal swing.

The power provided by "Acc 5" action can be demonstrated by lifting the arms, keeping Acc 1 and 4 zeroed out. And yes, if you are flexible enough, you can actually swing a club with Acc 1 and 4 zeroed out.

The power is provided by the downward chopping motion and the pressure point is, like Acc 4, the left shoulder.
 
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shootin4par

New
quote:Originally posted by swing-geek

I just got introduced to HK, TGM, and these forums a week ago and it has been a great experience. Lots of intelligent input here. And Homer's work "The Golf Machine" is quite impressive. As a working engineer for many years, I really appreciate his analytical approach to the golf swing.

But something just seemed to be missing in the 4 accumulators and it finally occurred to me today what it was. Before I even state what I think the missing piece is, it may be covered by accumulator 4, but I have yet to see that it is.

Accumulators 2 and 3 pretty much cover what happens in the wrist. Accumulator 1 covers the right elbow. But Accumulator 4 seems to only cover half the vector of how the left shoulder moves. It describes how the shoulder folds across the body, but not how it lifts.

Accumulator 5 would be the angle formed by the spine and the left arm. This angle must be measured from the "behind the shot" view at address and the "front on" view of the golfer at the top of the swing. Most players would be around 20 - 30 degrees at address (depending on club selected) and 150 degrees at the top (guestimating here).

Ah well, that's my two cents - what do you all think?
Click to expand...

I am laughing right now, can you figure why?
 
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swing-geek

New
Well, I can't. This thread is about trying to understand how the motion of the left arm should be described. I suppose the physical action of laughing could be used in the golf swing, but I havn't tried that yet.

Just edited the initial thread so it refers to left arm instead of shoulder - hey, it was late when I posted. [:p]
 
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MizunoJoe

New
"if you are flexible enough, you can actually swing a club with Acc 1 and 4 zeroed out"

You don't have to flexible at all, just a straight-armed rotating clown!
 
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Vaako

New
quote:Originally posted by shootin4par

quote:Originally posted by swing-geek

I just got introduced to HK, TGM, and these forums a week ago and it has been a great experience. Lots of intelligent input here. And Homer's work "The Golf Machine" is quite impressive. As a working engineer for many years, I really appreciate his analytical approach to the golf swing.

But something just seemed to be missing in the 4 accumulators and it finally occurred to me today what it was. Before I even state what I think the missing piece is, it may be covered by accumulator 4, but I have yet to see that it is.

Accumulators 2 and 3 pretty much cover what happens in the wrist. Accumulator 1 covers the right elbow. But Accumulator 4 seems to only cover half the vector of how the left shoulder moves. It describes how the shoulder folds across the body, but not how it lifts.

Accumulator 5 would be the angle formed by the spine and the left arm. This angle must be measured from the "behind the shot" view at address and the "front on" view of the golfer at the top of the swing. Most players would be around 20 - 30 degrees at address (depending on club selected) and 150 degrees at the top (guestimating here).

Ah well, that's my two cents - what do you all think?
Click to expand...

I am laughing right now, can you figure why?
Click to expand...

You two are married, and when swing-geek says "My two cents", you reach down your pocket for the said $0.02 coin laughing because it's really your two cents?

Did I win something?


Vaako
 
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swing-geek

New
Yeah, it is pretty dorky-looking, MizunoJoe. But seriously, is the lifting action of the left arm covered in Accumulator 4?
 
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6bee1dee

New
quote:Originally posted by swing-geek

Yeah, it is pretty dorky-looking, MizunoJoe. But seriously, is the lifting action of the left arm covered in Accumulator 4?
Click to expand...

No. Now you are talking about the Magic of The Right Forearm.

7-3 at the bottom of the page- .."Bending and Straightening the Right Elbow will RAISE AND LOWER the Left Arm and/or COCK AND UNCOCK the Left Wrist..."

(sorry for YAKing but the words are perfect, Brian)


See Acc#1 for elbow folding. Checkrein Action (dog running out of leash on a pole) of the right hand on the left arm.
 
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dbl

New
I watched the video, and it's good about the 4 TGM accumulators.

But I've wondered why the pivot does not count as a power accumulator. I realize it transports the wedges, but without it there would be less energy delivered to the ball.

Any help?
 
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David Alford

New
If the pivot is rejected as an accumlator, it seems HK is inconsistent to consider straightening the right arm to be a separate accumulator. You can't straighten the right without it being part of #4.

This classifcation system is lacking, IMO. It omits a lot of ways to accumulate power. The student show know where power comes from, not whether it never blends.
 
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dbl

New
Pivot power helps blast the left arm off the chest (#4). Yes, I can see that. But can #4 be performed without any help from a pivot? I'd think so.
 
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David Alford

New
jim, if HK #4 is defined as the left "moving downward and out, you are right. Clearly, the rt. arm can staighten with the left kept on the chest.

If it#4 is considered to be the movement of the left arm just downward, then I wouldn't agree. It just depends exactly on how HK defined it. It's not a problem of understanding mechanical possibilities, it's a problem of definitions.

As a matter of fact, in a real golf swing, #1, #2, #3, and #4 will alll move the left arm.

I believe, a better classification would be use "power sources" rather than "power accumulators".
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
David....i'm the last person in the world to be quoting the book since i don't own it, haven't read it, or for that matter never even LOOKED AT IT.

BUT

I do understand how the accumulators work and it is obvious you still have some "fog." Can the right arm straighten without the left arm moving, well no. Your hands are on the club, if you move the right arm the left is going to move some. But again, you could "zero out" your #4 accumulator and simply straighten a bent right arm into impact, this is how MANY chips shots are done. You could even "zero out" the #3 accumulator ANGLE and still do the above.
 
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