New Forum Rules! (and letter to the members)

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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Fellow golfers and members of this forum,

I have nearly 2200 members, and since this forum's inception, we have seen a lot of different personallities and agendas.

Usually, they come hoping for answers and they get 'em.

Sometimes they come sceptical, make comments and ask questions, and before long, our ALL-STAR group of knowledgeable people in golf, and your not-so humble host;), will 'convert' the non-believers.

Convert? To What?

The Golfing Machine? Not really.

Then what?

To a belief. A belief that golf is NOT a mystery. A belief that started my journey from someone who was told he was aiming incorrectly and answered: "That's to complicated for me," to someone who knows as much total golf information as anyone in the game.

A belief that Homer Kelley had when he wrote a book based on his 40 years of research. A belief that leads guys like Ben Doyle and Lynn Blake and Mike Hebron and many of you to ALWAYS dig for new information.

Sure we love Homer's work, but more importantly, we love golf and golfers, and we really want to help.

My agenda has always been very simple:

I have a LOT of ANSWERS. The guys and gals with the 'mike' have less. I wanted a place where I could 'do my thing' and teach people besides the ones who come for lessons.

This is THE PLACE for that.

We have a new member who has tried his best, to shoot holes in this forum and Homer's work.

He has failed.

I gave him one last 40 minutes of my life. A great post, answering the slams he made to the first few ideas in The Golfing Machine. http://www.manzellagolfforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1627

It was OBVIOUS that he didn't read the post and try to learn from it. It was OBVIOUS that, like many of you who have emailed me to get rid of this cancer have said, he is here with bad intentions.

So today, a new rule will be put in effect.

The H-rule.[}:)]

If you come to this forum with venom in your posts, we will try to help you. You will have a grace period.

But IF you don't learn, and keep HATE for the ANSWERS that we have found and can't come to grips with the fact that, while we are open minded, we aren't going to allow someone to ruin a really good thing.

So, in closing, this member we all know this H-rule will be inforced on, here is the RULE:

You can post.

We won't ban you.

If you post something that is offensive about anyone on this forum, or Mr. Kelley, we will delete it as soon a possible.

I ask all the membership to ignore this kind of post and I and my other moderators, will delete them soon.

And for the first member with your head in the H-rule 'corner,'

you can still post RESONABLE posts, which we will respond to.

Thanks everyone....

and now....


BACK to GOLF!!!![8D]:D:)
 
quote:Originally posted by David Alford

Well, can someone post criticisms of TGM or HK just like they can post criticisms of David Leadbetter?

David--

I seriously doubt Brian will delete objective criticism or spirited debate about TGM or any other golf related topics. He has just finally had a belly full (thank God) of the trolling and name calling (be it Horton berating Homer, Yoda, et. al., or members like me calling Horton names-- which, btw, I did more to provoke Brian to act, than to mock Horton). This is, inmho, a great policy, and should really improve the content (quality vs. quantity) of this Forum. I know you received more than your share of abuse when you first started posting here. The new policy will only benefit you.
 
Personally, I don't mind objective criticism & I don't feel anyone should be safe from it! :)

Yes, I did get a lot of abuse...too bad someone didn't take a picture of it, huh?

Thanks for your reply.
 

matt

New
You're about to lose a member if a certain other member doesn't get reined in. There's nothing for anyone to gain when every thread turns into scientific arguments over such minute details that have nothing to do with swinging a golf club. It's elementary and just plain stupid.

Brian, please let common sense prevail on this. I can't foresee horton budging nor will the TGM community. He's run his course. When you fail to appropriately ban you lose control of your forum. Please, please, please make this place enjoyable again.
 
There is nothing scientific in hortons gobbledygook. I wish you all would stop using words science and horton in the same context. :)

Vaako
 
quote:Originally posted by matt

You're about to lose a member if a certain other member doesn't get reined in. There's nothing for anyone to gain when every thread turns into scientific arguments over such minute details that have nothing to do with swinging a golf club. It's elementary and just plain stupid.

Brian, please let common sense prevail on this. I can't foresee horton budging nor will the TGM community. He's run his course. When you fail to appropriately ban you lose control of your forum. Please, please, please make this place enjoyable again.

I must conclude that you do not agree with Homer Kelley either based on his statement that TGM was based on Science. If you reject Science then you reject Homer and his TGM.

Maybe you should study Chapter 2 in TGM so that you can understand what is being discussed scientifically. Otherwise stick with reading, studying and learning TGM as a Method. I believe it works fine as a Method according to the many satisfied golfers on this and other TGM forums who are attemting to do it for free.

quote:Originally posted by Vaako

There is nothing scientific in hortons gobbledygook. I wish you all would stop using words science and horton in the same context. :)

Vaako

Could you oblige me and the forum by showing us what you do consider as "nothing scientific in hortons gobbledygook"? I wish you would have backed up your assertions with some context.
 

matt

New
quote:Originally posted by horton

quote:Originally posted by matt

You're about to lose a member if a certain other member doesn't get reined in. There's nothing for anyone to gain when every thread turns into scientific arguments over such minute details that have nothing to do with swinging a golf club. It's elementary and just plain stupid.

Brian, please let common sense prevail on this. I can't foresee horton budging nor will the TGM community. He's run his course. When you fail to appropriately ban you lose control of your forum. Please, please, please make this place enjoyable again.

I must conclude that you do not agree with Homer Kelley either based on his statement that TGM was based on Science. If you reject Science then you reject Homer and his TGM.

Maybe you should study Chapter 2 in TGM so that you can understand what is being discussed scientifically. Otherwise stick with reading, studying and learning TGM as a Method. I believe it works fine as a Method according to the many satisfied golfers on this and other TGM forums who are attemting to do it for free.

I know plenty about the book and how to apply it. I don't reject 'science' - I reject your trolling this forum. I reject your typing paragraphs upon paragraphs of sciencespeak each post...that 2 people will end up reading. I reject your cluttering up this board. If you haven't noticed by now, nobody really cares about 99% of the stuff you post.

What did you say your handicap was again? All I know is that Brian, myself, and scores of others here play great golf using the poor science and poor writing in The Golfing Machine.
 
matt::

On another topic thread, Brian did say: "Welcome back horton."

Care to take your disagreements with him?! Btw, everybody on this forum reads my posts and I dare say enjoy learning from them. TGM is in peril of being made irrelevant because it is stagnant and dependent on erroneous and obsolete science about the golfswing and equipment.

I heartily promote TGM as a Method but certainly not as a Science. Intelligent and resourceful AIs make TGM workable in their teaching. However it does not pass the Scientific Test because it is based on faulty Science which must be apparent to all.

I hear that hits on this forum skyrocket when I reappear and post my thoughtful and sincere messages. Truth conquers all ... but apparently not for you.
 

matt

New
You missed this part:

quote:What did you say your handicap was again? All I know is that Brian, myself, and scores of others here play great golf using the poor science and poor writing in The Golfing Machine.
 
quote:Originally posted by horton

matt::

On another topic thread, Brian did say: "Welcome back horton."

Care to take your disagreements with him?! Btw, everybody on this forum reads my posts and I dare say enjoy learning from them. TGM is in peril of being made irrelevant because it is stagnant and dependent on erroneous and obsolete science about the golfswing and equipment.

I heartily promote TGM as a Method but certainly not as a Science. Intelligent and resourceful AIs make TGM workable in their teaching. However it does not pass the Scientific Test because it is based on faulty Science which must be apparent to all.

I hear that hits on this forum skyrocket when I reappear and post my thoughtful and sincere messages. Truth conquers all ... but apparently not for you.

Yes, hits skyrocket at any forum site when a troll, such as you, appears. Big deal. You are a legend in your own mind. [:eek:)]
 
quote:Originally posted by matt

You missed this part:

quote:What did you say your handicap was again? All I know is that Brian, myself, and scores of others here play great golf using the poor science and poor writing in The Golfing Machine.

Well I guess in your case, two wrongs can make a right .....

My hdcp rating is +2.6 and my 7250 yard home course slope is 152. What's yours???
 
quote:Originally posted by horton

quote:Originally posted by matt

You missed this part:

quote:What did you say your handicap was again? All I know is that Brian, myself, and scores of others here play great golf using the poor science and poor writing in The Golfing Machine.

Well I guess in your case, two wrongs can make a right .....

My hdcp rating is +2.6 and my 7250 yard home course slope is 152. What's yours???

Excuse me, but did you not too long ago claim to be a mid capper who played a 5 wood off the tee? Hmmm. . . where are my galoshes? [:eek:)]
 
quote:Originally posted by horton

quote:Originally posted by Vaako

There is nothing scientific in hortons gobbledygook. I wish you all would stop using words science and horton in the same context. :)

Vaako

Could you oblige me and the forum by showing us what you do consider as "nothing scientific in hortons gobbledygook"? I wish you would have backed up your assertions with some context.
[/quote]

Always happy to oblige - although the reqular posters probably bounce on me. It seems they don't like feeding the trolls. [8]


1. Arc & Angle of Approach.

You used Impact and Separation Points to calculate some real world metric demonstrating "difference between Angle of Attack and Arc of Attack" in TGM.

Naturally, Homer had defined those - in Glossary - based on Impact Point and Low Point.

You can't understand the difference between Separation and Low Point?

How Mandrin of you.



2. Mountain Bikes

Was it not you, who claimed that it is impossible to spin a bike wheel by pushing at the spokes?

I seem to remember someone called bull**** on this one by testing it with a Scott.

We are still waiting your proof it can't be done.



3. This really needs no commenting.

quote:
Originally posted by horton

... It is scientifically proven that there is a momentary disconnection between the clubhead and shaft through Impact, so leverage cannot be used to "apply the Force to the Ball". The shaft and body disappears from the clubhead though Impact. What you "feel" is not scientifically "real", but it's okay for golfswing lessons.[/br]


Remind me again exactly how many hours have you spent on building your reputation on this forum? :D


Vaako
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Horton...your post was deleted. It broke the rules I set above.

You are hereby supended for 5 days.

You have something to offer...everyone does...but you broke the rules and must suffer some penalty.

I would like you back after your time-out, hopefully with better adherence to the rules.

BM
 
Originally posted by horton

... It is scientifically proven that there is a momentary disconnection between the clubhead and shaft through Impact, so leverage cannot be used to "apply the Force to the Ball". The shaft and body disappears from the clubhead though Impact. What you "feel" is not scientifically "real", but it's okay for golfswing lessons.[/br][/quote]


Vaako responded:

>>Remind me again exactly how many hours have you spent on building your reputation on this forum?<<

That's an ad hominem response to a statement that may have scientific merit.
 
David Lee,

You are grossly misrepresenting what my message says.

You did cut out the part preceding the Horton quote. It reads:

"3. This really needs no commenting."

This implies - clearly enough I would say - that this Horton quote "stands" on its own merits. Anything following it is not part of "3."

This is not honest quoting since the meaning is changed.

You also removed the bold typeface used in key Horton passages describing physical impossibilities.

Please note that this Horton quote is taken from someone else's reply to Horton. It included the boldface done by its' author. The reasons I used this - instead of original - are clarity due to highlighting and the fact Horton cannot change it after the fact.

I think it would be more polite to quote me correctly if you want to stick w/ the ad hominem knife.


Vaako
 
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