NEW (Launch Direction Dictated by...) CHART from TrackMan Conference
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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Michael Finney
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This is a little clarification on a slide John Graham posted a while back on the Launch Direction (formerly Horizontal Launch Angle) being affected by the face angle or club path. The original slide shared by John was not color coded to indicate that different clubs were being used to plot the data. With the original slide, it may have been assumed that it was DRIVER DATA ONLY and it looked like as ball speed went up that the face angle had a bigger influence on the launch direction - which is not the case.
Steve Greffen
New
I remember that chart. Granted I am looking at this one in a little more detail but it makes sense and is readable.
Mike or Brian, is there any reason that a couple of the 9 irons and 6 irons had 90 % influence from face angle? Also any reason that some of the driver swings were closer to 70 percent instead of the 85 ish percent?
Really not sure if it matters, but I am curious if there is something different about those swings, like contact, loft, spinloft etc. It did not appear to correlated to more ball speed or less ball speed.
Thanks guys,
Steve
Mike or Brian, is there any reason that a couple of the 9 irons and 6 irons had 90 % influence from face angle? Also any reason that some of the driver swings were closer to 70 percent instead of the 85 ish percent?
Really not sure if it matters, but I am curious if there is something different about those swings, like contact, loft, spinloft etc. It did not appear to correlated to more ball speed or less ball speed.
Thanks guys,
Steve
Frans@France
New
ofcenter hits
Steve Greffen
New
Seems reasonable enough.
Thanks
Thanks
Chris Como
New
Would vertical gear effect due to off center hits high or low on the face make a club influence the balls starting direction like it had more or less loft respectively? For example would a driver hit high on the face have a staring direction close to 75% of the face angle where as a driver hit low on the face have a starting direction closer to 95%?
Frans@France
New
Vert. gear effect only comes into play for the ballspin. If you hit it high on the face you will have more loft but that will be around 2 degree max. So indeed the ld will be less fa dictated but only by a small margin.
"With the original slide, it may have been assumed that it was DRIVER DATA ONLY and it looked like as ball speed went up that the face angle had a bigger influence on the launch direction - which is not the case. "
So are you saying as CH speed goes up (therefore ball speed increasing) face angle influence decreases & path influence increases?
thanks
So are you saying as CH speed goes up (therefore ball speed increasing) face angle influence decreases & path influence increases?
thanks
Frans@France
New
No, he is saying that ballspeed has NO relation.
"it looked like as ball speed went up that the face angle had a bigger influence on the launch direction - which is not the case. "
Based on the above words.........it is NOT the case that as ball speed went up.........face angle had a bigger influence on launch direction.
So.........does this mean that the influence STAYED THE SAME...........regardless of ball speed ? (as some say)
Based on the above words.........it is NOT the case that as ball speed went up.........face angle had a bigger influence on launch direction.
So.........does this mean that the influence STAYED THE SAME...........regardless of ball speed ? (as some say)
Frans@France
New
Chino,
Buy Theodore Jorgensen book "The physics of golf" and then goto page 139 (technical appendix - section 3) There you will find that ball speed is a result of a lot of things going on during impact. Ballspeed and LD are the results of the d-plane they are not the input and therefor have no influence.
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A couple thoughts I have coming out of the Users Conference...
1) The smaller the D-Plane "wedge" or triangle, the higher the % of Face influence. Thoughts?? (of course this is assuming no gear effect)
2) I wanted to ask about the new wedges with conforming grooves. Fredrik talked about a ping pong shot with a close to 90* open to sky paddle and a rubbery surface, the ball wont go up, but flat with a ton of spin, but if you have a wooden paddle it would pop straight up. I wonder if the new wedges are launching the ball any higher because of lesser friction.
1) The smaller the D-Plane "wedge" or triangle, the higher the % of Face influence. Thoughts?? (of course this is assuming no gear effect)
2) I wanted to ask about the new wedges with conforming grooves. Fredrik talked about a ping pong shot with a close to 90* open to sky paddle and a rubbery surface, the ball wont go up, but flat with a ton of spin, but if you have a wooden paddle it would pop straight up. I wonder if the new wedges are launching the ball any higher because of lesser friction.
Michael Finney
New
the chart is what it is - we don't know if it's different golfers within the plots....we don't know about how centered the hits were....we do know that the more oblique the contact (talking loft here) the less the ball responds to the normal to the face.....we would have to ask tuxen the exact effect of clubhead speed has on the ratio ALL OTHER PARAMETERS BEING EQUAL.....until then, we're probably guessing
Michael Finney
New
i'm guessing speed has nothing to do with the ratio....question has been sent to paul wood - we'll see what he says
1. Yep. You could equate that to SpinLofts if you're just talking straight shots. The 'ole 85% driver, 75% irons, 65% lob wedge.
2. Yeah, probably a little bit. A change in coefficient of friction would change the launch ratios. It's a matter of proportion.
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