Observations on trying the Manzella Neutral Grip

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kc8kir

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Well, I'm trying to commit myself to the soft draw pattern. Been working on the neutral grip. I have to say, it feels extremely weak (not just in position) to my prior grip. I'm talking about the amount of strength it takes to swing and square the club with the left hand. Just holding it level out in front of me for the "flat wrist to score lines" check is somewhat difficult after a few seconds. Is this common when transitioning to this grip?

It really really feels and looks like I have to push that left wrist low and down to flatten it out and square the clubface. That is, unless the right hand assists. I have always been a "left hand control, right hand rides along" swinger. It seems to me that the neutral grip allows the right hand to play a more active role in face control without destroying the integrity of the desired impact condition.

I already see two benefits to the neutral grip. I am getting a flat left wrist at the top of the swing (although, right now it takes a lot of strength to hold it there), and the wrist hinge feels much looser. Now, the feel is that I'm not going to be able to lag the club as much on the downswing, but based on my understanding of the swing, that's because I've associated the strong grip position and pressures with holding lag when in actuality I have been throwing the lag away.

Any tips on getting proficient with this grip (besides, just using it all the time)? Is it really supposed to feel like it takes this much strength to hold and swing the club?

It honestly feels like hooking the ball with this grip would be almost impossible, and I'm not going to be suprised if I leave shots out to the right for a while.
 
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kc8kir

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Yep. I basically put the clubface a little stronger than neutral, but not much. My old grip was a lot stronger most of the time.

I have the distinct feeling that the "hold the club in your fingers and grip it stronger" has actually hindered my development as a golfer rather than helped.

Now I just need to build some strength and learn to square the clubface .... again...
 
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brucifer

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Encountering the exact same issues myself.

It does feel so different, alien and weak and I find shots starting right and fading further right.

I think years of having a strong grip have caused me a lot of problems.

But I am determined that it needs to be neutral if I am to improve and its become part of my pre-shot routine to ensure I am.

Now I just need to work out how to get the swivel right, through the ball and get the club face squaring up better.

I find this hard though as I tend to do it too early and get outside the plane.

Would be grateful if anyone else has encountered a familiar progression from strong grip to neutral to help us out.

B
 
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kc8kir

New
Agreed...

I'm gonna have to double up on my Wheaties in the morning using this grip. I worked on chipping with it. Many shots were S O L I D but I leaked a lot to the right and my wrist was killing me by the end of the session.

Brian has to have encountered this with students.

I'm going to just make sure I take this new grip and practice pitch shots until I can get the new release timing (the toss for my SD pattern) down. Otherwise I'll effectively go from hooker to slicer with just this grip change.

I'm seriously considering getting reminder grips installed on my irons and woods to keep my hands in the neutral position automatically. I have an old shortened practice club from my dad with such a reminder and u cannot put your hands on it any other way. The hands just mold to the club. My grip feels absolutely solid on that club. My dad's irons actually have the old oval shaped grips. Those are fantastic. It really is too bad they were outlawed. The feel and security of the grip is sensational. His irons are old RAM blades and I swear I can hit those better than any iron I have ever tried.

Anyone know where I can get the old black and green victory grips with reminders?
 
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softconsult

New
My thought is that maybe you aren't quite getting the grip on there correctly.
Is the heel pad of your left hand on top of the grip? The test Brian shows about holding the club in the left hand with only index finger and heel of hand is at least 50 years old. There is no particular extra strength involved in swinging with this grip unless you are swinging the club in fashion that has it very off plane where the club gets heavy.

As far as the hold it out in front of you alignment test goes, I too can't hold it out there very long with just left hand. I just reach out with my right hand and hold the shaft up.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
This is a good post to help people understand when we are trying to teach golfers clubface control we prefer to do it with a weaker grip

Just a quick edit: my post was meant to be directed at shankers and slicers as brian corrected below. No manzella academy member uses EXCLUSIVELY weaker grips to fix all issues; but in shankers and slicers it does help a ton.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Actually...

Jim Kobylinski said:
This is a good post to help people understand when we are trying to teach golfers clubface control we prefer to do it with a weaker grip
Click to expand...

I would say we prescribe a "Neutral" grip ONLY for those who need it.

It is just a percentage, and I have gone over all of this many times....

It does make learning NOT TO SHANK and NOT TO SLICE easier to do 90% of the time.
 
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kc8kir

New
I do get the heel pad on top for sure. Probably just getting off plane then and making the club heavier than it needs to be. Right now, the takeaway for Softdraw and backswing is going really good (lots of mirror work confirms I'm getting in a nice top position). Don't popout, and keep taking the club back deep, and I end up real nice at the top, with just a slight across the line appearance, and a really square clubface with pretty much flat left wrist (maybe a tiny cup).

The transition down is killing me though. I absolutely feel like I loose control of the club. Lay it down 1 yard right of the target. Uh huh... right. Maybe in absolutely slow motion, but at speed... fugettaboutit. The club just wants to unhinge and unload, so I better stay ahead of it. Then again... maybe that's the idea :p

And Jim, about the learning clubface control, I agree completely. First thing my dad taught me was "grip the club like this (neutral), now look at the clubface, swing it half way back and look at the clubface, swing it halfway through and look at the clubface, the left hand is in control and the clubface must be square at the ball".... too bad I monkeyed with the grip once I started slicing and didn't stay with a neutral position. :rolleyes:
 
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kc8kir

New
Awesome news. I compared my grip on that cut down club (the one that I ALWAYS grip correctly), to my Manzella neutral on my clubs.

Guess what...

SAME GRIP. Feels just as comfortable.

Woohoo!

Certainly gives me some confidence in this grip. I might have to try my old right hand V takeaway and steering method again just for kicks. :D
 
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brucifer

New
When I used to take my natural grip and hold it out level in front of me, it was about 20 degrees shut or something close to as ridiculous as that.
The resulting shots were smothered/pull hooks.

With this grip, I would not really have to swivel at all, just hold it off as much as possible, in my opinion, to hit it straight-ish.

This was ok with shorter clubs, even 3 iron, I could hit well, but with driver/3 wood, total disaster.

So I have NSA and NHA, as I think I need elements of both, so started watching them again and have gone to the neutral grip.

This correct grip makes the clubhead weight feel so completely different in the hands, its just so bizarre but its right.

Already I am pleased with getting the ball in the air with the driver, even though it is a little blocked and slicing, so now I just need to work out how to control the clubface better.

With twistaway, do you not really need to add any swivel, is it about keeping the clubface on the plane and directing it at the ball? Keeping the ant looking at it?

Thanks in advance,
B
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
rogerdodger said:
Why does it make learning not to shank easier to do?
Click to expand...

Shankers have issues with lagging the hosel because they are trying to keep the face open enough (usually) for how right they are swinging. This makes them lose feel for where the sweetspot is. Weaken the grip and get them more on top of the sweetspot and swing a bit more left(er) and wala...
 
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wedgeplay

New
Manzella Grip

I've got the Manzella grip down pat.............for my left hand.


How about the right?

In NHA2,Brian has some modifications for the right hand grip to not Hook as bad.

I seem to have gotten the right hand too strong in the past ( V pointing too much toward my right shoulder).

Still haven't been out this season to try anything.
 
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