open club face at impact

[team9]

hey Brian Manzella et al,

i am very new to golf (golf clubs and net for chrissy) and have been reading watching videos and hitting balls like crazy since getting into it. only been on the course for 9 holes twice and as can be expected shot games that most ppl would be dissapointed for of 18 holes (84 , 85) but i was happy enough with it.

i have no problem with distance on my swing (200+ meter drives when hit well) but i seem to slice especially off my drives (also did address facing a bit left of target but think i have stopped that)

i have been knocking balls round the back yard and noticed that on impact my club face is open, to me this seems to be because my hands are further forward of the ball than they were at address (which is when i squared the face), meaning that it hasn't had time to close

i can correct this by twisting the club into a more closed position at address however i am not sure if it will be a problem of how much to close it etc. and i may just be compensating for an underlying problem i haven't found.

Am i doing something wrong in my downswing (should i be closing it mid swing etc) or maybe my hands are too far forward. Any suggestions of whats going wrong, and more importantly how to fix this would be most appreciated

cheers,

-Jack

PS: Brian Manzella, been watching your show on youtube, and i go out and practice for 30minutes after each time i watch... very helpful

 

[RicoSuave]

Hi Jack,

slicing doesn´t mean, that your clubface is open in relation to your target line.
Give a search on d-plane in Brian´s forum to understand the basics of the trajectory.
Here are some examples of how the ball reacts:
- swingpath square to target line, face open 3° -> Ball starting 2,6° to the right and fades then a little bit more to the right
- swingpath 4° out to in, face square -> Ball starting straight and fades then a little bit
- swingpath 6° in to out, face 3° open to the target line -> ball starts 2,8° to the right and draws back to the middle

So the curve of the ball is determined by the delta-angle between swing-path and face angle, the starting direction is determined 80% by the face angle.

Best thing would be to use a Golf-Simulator to know your swingpath and face angles.

Further more I recommend you Brian´s video: NSA (Never Slice Again)

 

[Kevin Shields]

Do a search for Brian Manzella on you tube and watch "lagging sweetspot feel" and then report back. Great info for you...and its only like 3 minutes!

 

[team9]

thanks for the advice guys, esp the lagging the sweat spot vid gave me some things to think about, and i found i was leading with the hossel esp with the driver.

i've had much more practice in the golf nets with the irons and don't tend to slice them so atleast im doing something right, it just seemed to be the driver that i had the most problem with.

this may not be the cause (thoughts welcome) but i've found 2 things i do that i don't think im meant to (and that when i try and stop aid in reducing my slice)

1. try to have my arms in the middle of my body. i do this while still trying to have the golf ball forward in my stance which means that im really aiming to the right of target (when i square face probably it greatly reduces slice , to even a slight fade).

2. the other thing is i try to really wallop the balls of the tee, the best way i know to describe it is the: the same way your right leg (if your right handed) goes onto its toes and swivel in the down swing, is the same thing that happened to my left leg during my backswing.

this leaves my toes and and lower body again facing left again and its hard for me to turn back to facing str8 before i hit the ball

i corrected number 2 by consciously just going onto my toe and not turning (but maybe im turning too hard)

any advice welcome and appreciated

-jack

ps: i've hit about 250 balls in the last 2 days and am slicing probably 1/3 off the tee which is and improvement from probably above 2/3rds before... my irons are probably a bit higher now (with hand placement at address changed) and am occasionally slicing (1/20) but think its cause im bring bad habits from my driving (which i am doing constantly...

PPs: i very really top the ball or do other things than hit it cleanly if that helps for advice

thanks heap

 

[Richie3Jack]

Beginners almost inevitably start playing golf with a slice. Then if they work at it and improve, they almost inevitably start hitting a hook. Keep re-reading RicoSuave's post...quiz yourself on it. Once you understand that, you're about half way there to solving your problem.

I'd also suggest Confessions of a Former Flipper.




3JACK

 

[team9]

i know this is asking to be spoon fed but can some please either explain d-plane to me or post a link to somewhere it is explained. i have tried searching thru the site and all i can find are discussions about certain facets of d-plane leading to fade etc. kind find a description of what it is or how to achieve it.

thanks v much

-jack

 

[dashfan87]

I think if you started playing during Christmas, and you shoot 84 or 85 for 18, your doing just fine...

just keep yourself on this site, and you will figure out the slice. and never try to bandage your problems, it will only lead to new problems... your looking at about 15 years of bandages im just now figuring out how to fix through this site.

 

[Richie3Jack]

i know this is asking to be spoon fed but can some please either explain d-plane to me or post a link to somewhere it is explained. i have tried searching thru the site and all i can find are discussions about certain facets of d-plane leading to fade etc. kind find a description of what it is or how to achieve it.

thanks v much

-jack

Check out this great thread http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/11013-finally-d-plane-pic-manzella.html

'Old ball flight laws' used to state that the ball started out mostly where the path of the club was going and then curvature of the ball (disregarding wind factor) was mostly determined by the angle of the club face.

So let's say you want to hit to hit a drive that starts out at the right rough and hooks to the middle of the fairway. The 'old ball flight laws' (which were incorrect) would say that you should swing the club at the right rough in the direction you want the ball to start and and have the face closed to some degree to hook the ball.


Then came along Theodore Jorgenson and his book 'The Physics of Golf' which found that the exact opposite happens because of 'D-Plane.'

The ball starts out mostly due to where the clubface is angled. Some say the clubface angle has 70-90% of the influence as to where the ball starts (although I keep reading that clubface is 87% responsible). And the curvature of the ball is mostly due to the path of the swing.

So again, if I wanted to hit a ball that starts at the right rough and hooks to the middle of the fairway, I would want to aim the *clubhead* to about where I want the ball to start (the right rough) and then swing the club inside to out to get the hook. The more hook I want, the more inside to out I swing.

Thus explaining Rico Suave's post:

- swingpath square to target line, face open 3° -> Ball starting 2,6° to the right and fades then a little bit more to the right

Swingpath is square = usually results in a pretty straight shot

Face open 3 degrees = Ball goes slightly to the right

Combine the path and face angle and you get a shot that starts slightly right and fades.

- swingpath 4° out to in, face square -> Ball starting straight and fades then a little bit

Swingpath 4 degrees out to in (aka cutting across) = a fade or slice

Face square = ball starts out straight

Combine the two and you get the ball starting straight and fading

- swingpath 6° in to out, face 3° open to the target line -> ball starts 2,8° to the right and draws back to the middle

Swingpath 6 degrees in to out = draw/hook

Face open 3 degrees = ball starts slightly to the right

Combine the two and you get a ball that starts slightly right and draws.





3JACK

 

[team9]

i think 84 or 85 off 18 i'd be doing just fine too... unfortunately its off 9 holes, doesn't matter to me at the moment tho, im conserntrating on making nicer shotes, not lowering my score (hopefully that will sort itself out later).

 

[dominicscaife]

i think 84 or 85 off 18 i'd be doing just fine too... unfortunately its off 9 holes, doesn't matter to me at the moment tho, im conserntrating on making nicer shotes, not lowering my score (hopefully that will sort itself out later).

Stick with it, buy Brian's video's, watch them a few times each and work on your putting and shortgame and you'll be under 50 in no time, and best of all probably ready to take your friends money on the course!

Dominic

 

[team9]

just to keep everyone updated, i went to the driving range and tried swing in planes of differented orientations, and addressing the ball at differrent angles al this led to a sore elbow, was having fun but hadn't found any magic yet

i'll go golfing next week and see if i can't get some improvement once the elbow feels better

cheers

 

[team9]

have been trying to improve my swing but am finding it hard (as do not know enough to accurately identify what im doing wrong).

as such i think i will have to get some lessons, any idea of a good place to get some in melbourne australia/what to work the on with the teacher.

cheers,

-jack

 

[Damon Lucas]

Steve Khatib!!