Over-acceleration
- Thread starter wanole
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shootin4par
New
any drills for this?
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Wrap a towel around the hosel of any club you want. Then accelerate it as smoothly as possible with heavy pressure in your hands.
If you try to go "too fast" it won't feel right. Hard to explain, but you'll know what i mean if you try it i promise.
If you try to go "too fast" it won't feel right. Hard to explain, but you'll know what i mean if you try it i promise.
Tom Bartlett
Administrator
To use Ben's analogy. What do you push a shopping cart with? Answer, your legs. If the cart "runs away" from you, you are over accelerating. You can only push something as fast as you can run. Trying to add extra (pushing the cart with your arms) is over acceleration.
Archie Swivel
New
Makes me think of an oft-debated issue of whether you can 'time the flip' and gain speed. I can advance a ball with just a flip of the hands, zeroing everything else out- just like I could push a shopping cart without moving my legs (if I let go of the cart). If you and I were both jogging side-by-side at 6 mph while pushing shopping carts and I decided to give an extra heave with my arms just for a second, keeping up with you, my shopping cart would pass yours by for a second.
So what if I timed a 'flip' of the hands to begin just before impact, thus losing lag? Would not the 'flip', timed corrrectly, add power?
As far as only being able to push something as fast as you run consider this: If you were to measure my right hand cross punching speed while standing still, how fast I can run and my punching speed while running at an attacker, I guarantee you my punching speed in the latter situation would be faster than I am running. Or say you can throw a baseball 70 mph and you're throwing a baseball in a eastwardly direction while riding on a train traveling east at 60 mph. How fast is the ball going-- 60, 70 or 130 mph?
So what if I timed a 'flip' of the hands to begin just before impact, thus losing lag? Would not the 'flip', timed corrrectly, add power?
As far as only being able to push something as fast as you run consider this: If you were to measure my right hand cross punching speed while standing still, how fast I can run and my punching speed while running at an attacker, I guarantee you my punching speed in the latter situation would be faster than I am running. Or say you can throw a baseball 70 mph and you're throwing a baseball in a eastwardly direction while riding on a train traveling east at 60 mph. How fast is the ball going-- 60, 70 or 130 mph?
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Try it out at the range, and when you notice your clubhead speed didn't improve and you're icing down your wrists from this flip, let us know it was worth it
Archie Swivel
New
Not sure that I disagree with your conclusion (And I would not be a member of this forum for two years if I did not believe in the importance of lag), just trying to figure out the math on getting there. Homer didn't include many equations in his book. Zeroing everything else out, I can 'flip' a golf ball further than I can advance it with left wrist uncocking.
quote:Originally posted by jim_0068
Try it out at the range, and when you notice your clubhead speed didn't improve and you're icing down your wrists from this flip, let us know it was worth it
Tom Bartlett
Administrator
If you let go of the cart you aren't pushing it anymore. You have "thrown it away". Your analogy with throwing the punch is OK because your arm isn't leaving your body. You are adding #1 accumulator.
Back to the shopping cart. If you are pushing it at a stack of bricks and one time you "threw the cart" and the other you run through the pile. Which will knock more bricks over?
How did I fix my over acceleration? Learn to monitor the hands. Realize that they are aiming the force not creating it. A good drill is to swing a towel (fold it in half and grab the end like a golf club) then wallop something, furniture, door-jam, spouse, child...just kidding no children.
Back to the shopping cart. If you are pushing it at a stack of bricks and one time you "threw the cart" and the other you run through the pile. Which will knock more bricks over?
How did I fix my over acceleration? Learn to monitor the hands. Realize that they are aiming the force not creating it. A good drill is to swing a towel (fold it in half and grab the end like a golf club) then wallop something, furniture, door-jam, spouse, child...just kidding no children.
Great advice. For me, this is THE best drill for curing OA. I use a necktie instead of a towel. You will soon find out that ANY added hand effort reduces the wallop. The towel version can come in handy during a round in which you find yourself in the "hand adding" trap that even good players fall into.
Brian shows this drill in Confessions of a Former Flipper.
shootin4par
New
would swinging with the right arm only be a good drill for overaceleration, considering that it is probably the right arm that is doing the overacceleration anyways.
Tom Bartlett
Administrator
Sure, you could use just the right or left arm. But I would prefer both since that is how we swing a club, unless some unfortunate incident only allows you to use one. Excessive hand speed is the culprit.
Archie,
Mr. Kelley gave a number of reasons why trying to increase clubhead speed with a "flip" is a bad idea, but perhaps the best way to address your particular question (i.e. the mathematics of it all) is to realize that clubhead speed is only one of the factors affecting the distance the ball travels. Another is the loft of the club you're hitting it with, and the geometry of the Lever Assemblies dictates that any breakdown of the Primary will add loft to the clubface. So the question is not whether you can increase your clubhead speed from 100 MPH to 105 MPH by flipping the clubhead at Impact, but is really whether you can hit a 6- or 7-iron at 105 MPH as far as you can hit your 5-iron at 100 MPH.
Archie Swivel
New
WANOLE
I suppose that at the moment of impact, the ball will try to make the golf clubrotate "backwards" about its center of mass, and a clubhead with a larger moment of inertia will rotate less. So perhaps a bent right wrist can add mass. Mass is a component of Momentum. Momentum can be used to determine ball velocity. A factor in striking a golf ball is the pushing due to your hands. Momentum is lost from the golf club, transferred to the ball. The club/ball system gets a little extra momentum from the golf player's hands during the short time the club and ball are in contact. So I say you may be right.
This is probably why Goosen hits further than Faxon (referencing an old post)-- he's got those Popeye forearms.
contact.
I suppose that at the moment of impact, the ball will try to make the golf clubrotate "backwards" about its center of mass, and a clubhead with a larger moment of inertia will rotate less. So perhaps a bent right wrist can add mass. Mass is a component of Momentum. Momentum can be used to determine ball velocity. A factor in striking a golf ball is the pushing due to your hands. Momentum is lost from the golf club, transferred to the ball. The club/ball system gets a little extra momentum from the golf player's hands during the short time the club and ball are in contact. So I say you may be right.
This is probably why Goosen hits further than Faxon (referencing an old post)-- he's got those Popeye forearms.
contact.
Were this true, then the study by Budney and Bellows would show different results. In this study, the professional golfers measured showed a steady reduction of right hand grip pressure up to impact, and shortly after impact, the pressure went to zero. If the right wrist were adding mass, it would have to happen through the right hand and would show up as increased pressure.
The facts are that in a CF Swing, no mass is added by the hands to the freewheeling clubhead. The important thing is that the left hand keep moving through impact to prevent a bent left wrist, which would minimize separation velocity. And that left hand is kept moving by the pivot and not an independent pulling of the left hand.
Archie Swivel
New
MJ,
I think we would all agree that Sergio could hit a ball further than Lou Ferigno- although I've never seen the Hulk smack it around. But who could make the bell ring at the county fair with the hammer more easily? A strong, sturdy bent right wrist must reduce the tendency for the club to bounce back off the ball or at least reduce the loss of momentum a bit. Transfer of momentum you must agree is relevant. Momentum is mass times velocity. Transfer of momentum can be decreased if the club can bounce back off the ball. But if the clubhead is speeding up because of the flip action, mass must be decreasing. But I may not know what I'm talking about.
I think we would all agree that Sergio could hit a ball further than Lou Ferigno- although I've never seen the Hulk smack it around. But who could make the bell ring at the county fair with the hammer more easily? A strong, sturdy bent right wrist must reduce the tendency for the club to bounce back off the ball or at least reduce the loss of momentum a bit. Transfer of momentum you must agree is relevant. Momentum is mass times velocity. Transfer of momentum can be decreased if the club can bounce back off the ball. But if the clubhead is speeding up because of the flip action, mass must be decreasing. But I may not know what I'm talking about.
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