Perfect Putting Roll
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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Richie3Jack
New
That is awesome. I used to be a great putter, but when I got back into the game I was struggling a bit with my putter and after making some adjustments nothing was working. So I finally decided to get a putter fitting analyzing my skid-roll and we found that I was getting a ton of skid (too much loft on my putter, lie angle too flat). Without really changing a thing except for the putter my putting improved a ton.
The putter fitter that I went to did say that from their experience that the grooves on the putterface do indeed help reduce skid (they liked Taylor Made's grooved faces the best). He did explain why Yes! putters (and now Nike's Method putters) don't eliminate skid all together because they measure skid completely different from the rest of the manufacturers and clubmakers.
3JACK
The putter fitter that I went to did say that from their experience that the grooves on the putterface do indeed help reduce skid (they liked Taylor Made's grooved faces the best). He did explain why Yes! putters (and now Nike's Method putters) don't eliminate skid all together because they measure skid completely different from the rest of the manufacturers and clubmakers.
3JACK
dsmith2296
New
So what is ideal here? to zero out effective loft?
Richie3Jack
New
The last one is ideal (in most cases). The rise angle is higher than the effective loft.
However, you have to be careful depending on the greens you're playing. If your playing on slow greens you will want some added loft. You just want the loft to have topspin to it.
3JACK
Richie3Jack
New
Problem with contacting ball after the low point for many golfers is that the putterface can close at impact, it often causes the golfer to aim left of the target and you still need to make solid contact...topping the ball isn't the solution. That's why there's been great putters with the ball moved forward as well as great putters with the ball more towards the middle of the stance.
If anything, I think it's more important to find the right loft on the putter for the golfer. Too much loft can be problematic and thus relying on shaft lean to reduce the loft properly. The Odyssey and Scotty Cameron putters have 4* of loft. Both are very popular putters and may be ineffective for a lot of golfers because they may have too much loft.
3JACK
mgranato
New
Made the same discovery a couple months ago. I had the "up" part from the stroke, but with a putter of 3.5* of loft. I was in the ballpark of 7.5* of loft at impact. Switched putters (one with 1.5* of effective loft) and the difference is amazing.
dsmith2296
New
So deloft the putter and hit up on it?
confirmation please!
confirmation please!
mgranato
New
Without having YOUR stroke measured, it's just a guess - but in general most play putters with too much loft (with too much loft being the "standard" of 3.5-4.0*). My answer to your question would be to deloft the putter by changing it's loft. The "hit up" part would be dependent on what you already do. You many already have enough up, but with too much putter loft.
Richie3Jack
New
I had a Mizuno putter that was supposed to be 3* loft, but when they measured it actually had 4.5* of loft. So IMO one of the problems is the Quality Control of the major OEM's and you may have a lot more loft than you're supposed to.
3JACK
Richie3Jack
New
No, your upward hit has to be more equal to or more than the loft of the putter at impact.
You can de-loft the putter and get more upward hit, but that's not always the solution.
3JACK
dsmith2296
New
So if my putter has 4* of loft and I deloft it to an effective 2* of loft by forward lean, I then need to hit up 2*?
Gotta tell you, I'm the worst putter on this forum compared to ball striking and I have always delofted the putter and hit down. Is that a recipe for disaster?
Richie3Jack
New
Yes, you shouldn't hit down with the putter. But you have the idea, if you de-loft to say 2*, than you need an upward hit of 2* or more. Getting out of hitting down alone should help with your putting.
3JACK
Damon Lucas
Super Moderator
Guys,
This is a dangerous area for a lot of people to work on!
What is implied is that one wants minimum skid. Great! There has not been one study(effectively undertaken or not) that has proven that having less skid leads to less putts.
The manufacturers want you to buy their putters, so they will tell you that less skid will equate to better putting. Not necessarily.
The main reason is that because we are human(and not robots test putting on pool tables), the ways to change the roll to a less skidding type of roll typically involve forward pressed hands, hitting up on the ball, bent putters, ball position adjustments, posture adjustments, and probably a couple of other changes.
These changes do not take into account what will happen to one's distance control, one's aim, or one's ability to hit the ball on line.
If you are going to pursue the route of acquiring more roll, get a putter with the right amount of loft for your kind of stroke, but which also allows you to aim well, and go from there. Bending a putter changes your aiming perceptions, so be careful.
This is a dangerous area for a lot of people to work on!
What is implied is that one wants minimum skid. Great! There has not been one study(effectively undertaken or not) that has proven that having less skid leads to less putts.
The manufacturers want you to buy their putters, so they will tell you that less skid will equate to better putting. Not necessarily.
The main reason is that because we are human(and not robots test putting on pool tables), the ways to change the roll to a less skidding type of roll typically involve forward pressed hands, hitting up on the ball, bent putters, ball position adjustments, posture adjustments, and probably a couple of other changes.
These changes do not take into account what will happen to one's distance control, one's aim, or one's ability to hit the ball on line.
If you are going to pursue the route of acquiring more roll, get a putter with the right amount of loft for your kind of stroke, but which also allows you to aim well, and go from there. Bending a putter changes your aiming perceptions, so be careful.
yup
vjsinger
New
How smart is this guy. Finally a voice of reason.
Spot on....
Plus which, if your setup is basically the same every putt, any skid will be consistent to your stroke, which makes it playable....
To be honest, I have found consistent "hitting" up, done on a deliberate basis, a really difficult thing to achieve..and it detracts from what I really want to think conciously about at impact, i.e. corect BLADE ANGLE...
Richie3Jack
New
I don't think about 'hitting up' with the putter. I just take my stroke and if hitting up is a problem I may do something like move the ball slightly more forward in my stance.
However, you sort of contradicted yourself in your response to DSmith if you read all of Damon's post:
If you are going to pursue the route of acquiring more roll, get a putter with the right amount of loft for your kind of stroke, but which also allows you to aim well, and go from there. Bending a putter changes your aiming perceptions, so be careful. - Damon Lucas
That's a lot different from manually de-lofting your putter and hitting more up on it.
I guess I'd have to see what the studies Damon is talking about have in regards to what the subject is doing.
From my experience, I started to make more putts simply by bending the lie angle and loft which reduced the skid. My *guess* is that bending the putter didn't effect my aim and then with less skid and not hitting the putts off-center, more putts were made. But had I reduced my skid and hit more putts on the sweetspot, but at the expence of aim, my guess is that I would see no improvement.
That being said, I cannot fathom why more skid would be helpful, mainly because when I had issues the ball would hit off the putterface and start out in all different directions.
3JACK
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