Pivot and grip

[Fingersen]

Well, I just read the articles Brian has written on pivot turn and the grip, but have some difficulties fully understanding them.

Therefore, I have posted an image of my grip and a video of my assumption of the pivot turn, so experts outthere could tell me if that's what is meant by grip and pivot turn.

The Grip:



The Pivot turn
http://mywynk.org/video/pivot-8119

Is that the way to turn on the backswing? Without the club across your chest, of course.

Thanks

 

[birdie_man]

I think that articlce prescribes a big move to the golfer's right to train the pivot (for beginning golfers who would have trouble with keeping head still right from the start).

Brian can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Why I would make someone 'line up' the apple and the orange

One of the VERY first things I ever figured out about the golf swing was that the REVERSE PIVOT was bad news.

My dad palyed with guys that had 'em, I saw folks at the range with 'em, and when I started to teach, nearly EVERYONE had one.

We had a teacher named Jimmy Self, who, although he DID NOT have a reserve pivot, TAUGHT a reverse pivot.

"Keeeep yer head balanced over that ball." All day everyday.

Funny thing, the message was the SAME as the folks who have bought into this "Head precisely between your feet" junk.

These folks (Jimmy's students and the others mentioned) all DID THAT, and couldn't play dead.

I fixed so many of them, it was like a cottage industry, and I did it, mostly, by having the left shoulder "line up" with the right hip.

Is this an exageration for effect?

Kinda.

If you reversed, it was a step toward making a slightly more centered pivot. But for many inflexible golfers, it was the cure AND the variation.

I'd love to walk down the tee line fixing one golfer MY way and one their way—just the pivot— and tape the results.

That would end that debate fast with the real golfers.

 

[rbaumgolf]

Zach Johnson

I was watching lessons from the Pros last night on GC and one of Zach's swing thoughts was "keep my head behind the ball" - I know Brian 's method of exagerating that move is very helpful; It will cure your reverse pivot fast.

 

[EdZ]

Brian, I think you would agree the probelm teaching a still head is a transition problem, yes?

So if you fix the head, you have to then fix the transition.

If you have allowed the head to move, the transition move is 'cheating' a bit.

I don't disagree that allowing the head to move can be a 'step along the road' to a stable one, but to insisit it is 'the' way is just not complete IMO. I wouldn't call it a 'band aid' fix, but it is a compensation for an improper transition/right shoulder motion or off plane motion.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Ed,

I disagree with ALL MY HEART.

NOBODY IN THE HISTORY OF GOLF who ever was a champion of note, ever made a swing with a driver that had the head "Precisely Between The feet."

Not one.

The ones that HAD a "basically" stationary head, had that head BEHIND CENTER.

Again, if anyone wants to walk a tee line and teach PIVOT TRIPOD CENTER to every other golfer and I'll teach TURN AROUND THE SPINE to the rest, I say let's go.

It would END THIS "marketing hype" about this tripod, once and for all.

 

[mrodock]

I think for the better player to start with the head back at set-up and maintain a steady head, or close to a steady head (so long as they are flexible) that makes a lot of sense. However, the pivot-centered tripod seems just silly to me. You look at anyone that can strike a golf ball and that is just flat out not how they look at impact.

Matt

 

[EdZ]

Ed,

I disagree with ALL MY HEART.

NOBODY IN THE HISTORY OF GOLF who ever was a champion of note, ever made a swing with a driver that had the head "Precisely Between The feet."

Not one.

The ones that HAD a "basically" stationary head, had that head BEHIND CENTER.

Again, if anyone wants to walk a tee line and teach PIVOT TRIPOD CENTER to every other golfer and I'll teach TURN AROUND THE SPINE to the rest, I say let's go.

It would END THIS "marketing hype" about this tripod, once and for all.

Maintaining Impact Fix location, due to axis tilt, will be slightly behind center.

A 'centered' head at adjusted address, similar to 'mid body hands' vs 'impact hands'.

Personally, I think swingers benefit greatly by learning the around the spine center, and hitters do best with a 'steady' head.

 

[jpvegas1]

In Search for the Perfect Swing, there is a table from Golf DIgest that showed the average pro, of 31 pros measured, addressed the ball with their heads 3.1 inches to the right of center and on the backswing the head moved another 2.1 inches to the right and 1.1 inch downward. Additionally, from the top of the backswing to impact the head moved another 0.9 inches to the right and 1.1 inches downward.

Cochran found that the best players heads moved during the swing, but they moved in a way that kept the hub of the swinging action still. Cochran describes the hub as a point on the midline of the chest just below the level of the shoulders, or near the upper part of the sternum. The swing action of the golf swing occurs around this point.

 

[birdie_man]

I think with your head back (set er there at Address) you can drive your hands to that "airspace" ahead of the ball (visually covering the left toe) much better.

Timely topic actually.....I just started working on this.....my setup's gotten crappy recently.....and this is exactly what I'm adjusting. Setup with head back of centre ("torso lean")....more or less stationary throughout the swing....maybe move back like an inch naturally.

We'll see how she works.....I think it'll be an improvement for sure....esp. with driver.

 

[vjcapron]

Well, I just read the articles Brian has written on pivot turn and the grip, but have some difficulties fully understanding them.

Therefore, I have posted an image of my grip and a video of my assumption of the pivot turn, so experts outthere could tell me if that's what is meant by grip and pivot turn.

The Grip:



The Pivot turn
http://mywynk.org/video/pivot-8119

Is that the way to turn on the backswing? Without the club across your chest, of course.

Thanks

The first picture of your grip (the one on top) looks very orthodox. The bottom picture has the hands spaced too far apart. The top grip would be considered a perfectly neutral, 2 knuckle, left-hand grip by most instructors. It looks great.

I'm not sure if that grip would be considered "Manzella Neutral", becuase that it is a 2-knuckle left hand grip. From what I have read, I think Brian would like to see 1.5 knuckles or even just one knuckle on that left hand grip ala Johnny Miller. Not certain though.

If you grip it like the top picture and turn just like you did in the video, you are well on your way to a solid golf swing.

 

[birdie_man]

I think with your head back (set er there at Address) you can drive your hands to that "airspace" ahead of the ball (visually covering the left toe) much better.

Timely topic actually.....I just started working on this.....my setup's gotten crappy recently.....and this is exactly what I'm adjusting. Setup with head back of centre ("torso lean")....more or less stationary throughout the swing....maybe move back like an inch naturally.

We'll see how she works.....I think it'll be an improvement for sure....esp. with driver.

I hit it so infinitely better today.....I don't use the word infinitely often but I had to bust it out of the vocabulary this time....

Hit every club better, straighter, further, higher (with a flatter trajectory), and with less pull/hook tendency.

....biggest difference with the driver....but it worked very well for all clubs.

This is one of those things in my setup that I haven't noticed lately but this quick change really did work very well for me today.

I suspect it'll work well for everything.....still need to sort out short irons tho (was hittin em well but wanna experiment some).....will try different amounts of weight on front foot depending on how high/low I wanna hit it...as well as how much of this away-from-target torso-lean I need....how it influences trajectory, etc.

I really was hitting it well.

 

[Fingersen]

Thanks for the replies. Great to hear you found something that worked well for you in your golfswing, Birdieman.

I also tried to have my head leaned a bit away from center at address and keep it stationary throughout the whole swing. That combined with a right arm pickup takeaway helped me hit the ball better.

See if I can get around to post it on video to see what you guys think. Don't have a golf instructor where I live, so I have to go by the advice you guys give me.