Pivot Controlled Hands - Powerful?

[christopherswalker]

I think I have </u>begun</u> to see the light[8D]. I really rely on my body to generate power in my swing. I believe I have pivot controlled hands.

I have always had a low inside takeaway aka shoulder takeaway. I have really been working on getting into a better position at the top using a the right forearm pickup but really haven't been able to hit the ball at all. I believe part of the reason I am struggling with this is because my pivot still wants to power the club. Don't pivot controlled hands need this low inside takeaway to get the club deep?

So I have been taken some practice swings concentrating on having the pivot merely accomodate the driving of the hands. It feels good, my desire to take the club inside really dissapears. (My teacher has been trying to get me to do this for awhile, sometimes it just takes hearing it enough times in different ways)

My question is this - is pivot controlled hands more powerful than hands controlled pivot? I know the response will be 'no' but I am looking for some insight to help get this through my coconut.

Using pivot controlled hands I feel very powerful like a discus thrower utilizing his body turn as much as possible. Using what I feel is hands controlled pivot (which I very well may be not actually doing) I feel much less powerful.

 

[christopherswalker]

Not ringer, sorry. Just looking for some insight.

Thanks-Chris

 

[bsbsbs]

quote:Originally posted by Mathew

LOL...Hello Ringer...

This is the sort of thing that gripes me. If you go to the original posters profile it says he has been a member since march. i don't think Ringer is going to come up with a extra persona in march and wait til now to post with it. Yes we have been told that hand controlled pivot is vastly superior, and I agree that it is, but whats with all the dang paranoia and skepticism anytime someone posts anything that doesn't follow "party lines". Must be a lot of pot smoking going on. The previous statement was a reference to paranoia and was not meant to taken as a personal atttack in any way, If you suffer from paranoia and or any other condition that could cause said behavior please see your doctor.

 

[christopherswalker]

Thanks. BTW I am in no way saying pivot controlled hands is superior quite the opposite I think it has always been a big problem my whole golfing life (think I am hurt by playing a lot of baseball growing up). Looking to get over this obstacle.

 

[Mathew]

quote:Originally posted by bsbsbs

quote:Originally posted by Mathew

LOL...Hello Ringer...

This is the sort of thing that gripes me. If you go to the original posters profile it says he has been a member since march. i don't think Ringer is going to come up with a extra persona in march and wait til now to post with it. Yes we have been told that hand controlled pivot is vastly superior, and I agree that it is, but whats with all the dang paranoia and skepticism anytime someone posts anything that doesn't follow "party lines". Must be a lot of pot smoking going on. The previous statement was a reference to paranoia and was not meant to taken as a personal atttack in any way, If you suffer from paranoia and or any other condition that could cause said behavior please see your doctor.

Im sorry I said what ????

 

[mb6606]

I do not believe it is a question of which one is more powerful rather which one will give you the most accurate strike time after time. Letting the hands control the strike or the body??

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by christopherswalker

Thanks. BTW I am in no way saying pivot controlled hands is superior quite the opposite I think it has always been a big problem my whole golfing life (think I am hurt by playing a lot of baseball growing up). Looking to get over this obstacle.

Homer said, "Hit with the whole body" The pivot he said is the first Zone to be trained. The pivot transports the arms and hands into impact. The pivot is very important. What the pivot should not do is move the hands without the hands wanting to be moved. The body shouldn't just "sling" the arms & hands toward the ball - this moves the club off plane and the clubface alignments undependable. You can play pivot control hands, but hands control pivot is far superior. Better ball control and better golf. Hands control is not a short hitters swing AT ALL.

Three schools of thought about “hand control.”
1- WRONG- the hands and arms swing to the ball and the pivot moves. Flick school. Some TGMers cower to this because they fear the they might break the adage of having a pivot controlled swing.
2- Ben Doyle school of thought. This is the way I swung for a long time. There is nothing wrong with it. Ben like to say. “The pivot does ALL the work. ALL the work. This a fine swing. Ben likes to get to the top, let the body, the pivot, move the hands down into the hitting area by lowering the right shoulder, keeping the club on plane. Ben is always on plane. Moving the hands into the impact area and snapping his hips and hinny into the ball. Snap release, pivot doing all the work like a car transporter move cars on the highway. This is hand control because the hands are calling the moves.
3- This is the manner I swing today, enlightened by Yoda. The pivot does the work - just not all of it. The pivot just does what it is designated to do. The pivot starts the hands down like a big wheeler needing a few lower gears to move from a dead stop. The pivot kinda takes up the “slack” at the top, if you can pictured that in your head.
Once the pivot, body and hands are all in motion, the pivot just keeps moving to stay in rhythm with the arms, but the hands are violently heading into impact. Educated hands controlling a well “rhythmed” machine. I hit the ball a ton now. Of course it was more to it then getting re-pivoted. Yoda works wonders - even with AIs.

To baseball: I teach my son to step and throw the ball, body moves the arm throws. The body was no idea where the ball will go, but the arm does. Hitting, waiting for the pitch is like being at top. See the ball, move leg, hips rotate pulls shoulders (takes up the "slack") and the arms fire. The body moves but the arms and hands control the bat.

 

[dclaryjr]

quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee

2- Ben Doyle school of thought. This is the way I swung for a long time. There is nothing wrong with it. Ben like to say. “The pivot does ALL the work. ALL the work.

I watched the Ben Doyle tape this week and that was something that really stood out to me. I was surprised by that because I didn't get that impression from all the reading I've done on the TGM-related forums. I did enjoy the video, however--it helped me understand some of the components that were a little foggy.

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by dclaryjr

quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee

2- Ben Doyle school of thought. This is the way I swung for a long time. There is nothing wrong with it. Ben like to say. “The pivot does ALL the work. ALL the work.

I watched the Ben Doyle tape this week and that was something that really stood out to me. I was surprised by that because I didn't get that impression from all the reading I've done on the TGM-related forums. I did enjoy the video, however--it helped me understand some of the components that were a little foggy.

There is not anything wrong or "un" TGM about Ben's interpretation of Hands control pivot. It was a swing that took my gane to another level. Yoda's swing is a little different, not much. Less carrying of the arms and hands into impact. Remember, Ben is a 12-2-0 "swinger" and the snap release with a good pull may need a little more transportantion. Yoda's swing is "born" out of 12-1-0, Hitting which uses a more powerful pushing right shoulder. Even Yoda's swing has a very powerful right side with less pivot transportantion of the arms and hands. Both swings are TGM, of course, and are in total rhythm of body and arms. That tape is loaded with information, let some settle in.

 

[cdog]

I think 5-0 describes hands control as well as can be expected, i think.
Why do most seem to hit the irons, swing their woods?

 

[MizunoJoe]

Because Hitting takes a back seat to the power potential available in Swinging. Centrifugal force trumps the right tricep.

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

Because Hitting takes a back seat to the power potential available in Swinging. Centrifugal force trumps the right tricep.

True that the speed of Centrifugal force, the swingers alignment of the clubface, can really launch a ball. You can thank the small pulley effect for speeding up the clubhead,too. Another reason it is used more often off the tee and with longer clubs is that along with the sexy horizontal hinging and snap release, the longer shaft squares up easlier with the Arc of Approach.

Mike Austin may drive a ball father then another one else, even at a ripe old age of 64. He uses a modified "Hitters" stroke. Its more then the right tricep, its the thrust on one mean rightous right shoulder into the back of the ball.
Swinging and hitting distance depends on the golfer. Yoda whacks the krap out of the ball with both, maybe more with "hitting."

 

[cdog]

6B, i think you hit the nail right on the head with the right shoulder comment, i think thats where his power comes from, that and almost perfect alignments.

 

[Ringer]

No comment.

 

[mb6606]

Hitters Stadler (big round heavy build) and Nelson (little skinny build) are both in the top ten in driving distance on the Senior circuit with very respectable distance.

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by mb6606

Hitters Stadler (big round heavy build) and Nelson (little skinny build) are both in the top ten in driving distance on the Senior circuit with very respectable distance.

After watching Yoda hit, "Hitting Rules !" See Brian about that one.

Although I swing at anything on a tee or any flyer lie in the grass, from learning to "hit," I learned to put some more shoulder into the ball and my drives are obscenely longer. I am carrying over distances I once just hoped to roll to. This is powerful stuff. My swing speed is averaging around 118, it was bearly 95 before any of this. Practice mechanics into a feel and the feel into a game.
Do I sound addicted to this stuff? And why a blind prognosticator of doubtfulness and descent about TGM seems so ... This stuff works bigtime.

 

[dclaryjr]

quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee


Mike Austin may drive a ball father then another one else, even at a ripe old age of 64. He uses a modified "Hitters" stroke. Its more then the right tricep, its the thrust on one mean rightous right shoulder into the back of the ball.
Swinging and hitting distance depends on the golfer. Yoda whacks the krap out of the ball with both, maybe more with "hitting."

What I can't get a grasp on is what is the attraction of hitting to you? I know you and the other Pine Needles attendees were impressed with Yoda's mastery but didn't he quote Homer as saying something like "Hitting is easy--I can do it in my sleep?" You've conceded in this thread that swingers generate great power. So what's wrong with a method that's "easy" and powerful[?]

P.S. I just reread the part about your swing speed going from 95 to 118. Nevermind!!

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by dclaryjr

quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee


Mike Austin may drive a ball father then another one else, even at a ripe old age of 64. He uses a modified "Hitters" stroke. Its more then the right tricep, its the thrust on one mean rightous right shoulder into the back of the ball.
Swinging and hitting distance depends on the golfer. Yoda whacks the krap out of the ball with both, maybe more with "hitting."

What I can't get a grasp on is what is the attraction of hitting to you? I know you and the other Pine Needles attendees were impressed with Yoda's mastery but didn't he quote Homer as saying something like "Hitting is easy--I can do it in my sleep?" You've conceded in this thread that swingers generate great power. So what's wrong with a method that's "easy" and powerful[?]

P.S. I just reread the part about your swing speed going from 95 to 118. Nevermind!!

Swinging is like drinking tequila all night. Sweet, simple and potent. Hitting is like mainlining some drug. Reluctant at first then totally addicting.

My swing speed, just re-measured since July, is a rsult of ALL the good things coming together from TGM. Great mechanics born out of Geometry. That and Yoda touching my hands at address the time.

 

[dclaryjr]

quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee
[Swinging is like drinking tequila all night. Sweet, simple and potent. Hitting is like mainlining some drug. Reluctant at first then totally addicting.

Well as much as I like medical procedures that involve Demerol IVs, guess I have to try hitting!