Plane as a straight line concept?
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Kevin Shields
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No, in my opinion
Dariusz J.
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What plane are we talking about ? Shaft plane ?
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SteveT
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"Planes" are a static construct and do not exist for the swinging golfer; only paths exist.
The shaft not only flexes and unflexes; it twists and the tip droops approaching Impact. If there is a 'shaft plane', it fluctuates and meanders.
Lines drawn on video stills are only approximations, and even so, they are a best guess illustration.
Planes are useful for instructors as a diagnostic tool, but it's not real for the swinging golfer ... who can only direct their rotating body and attempt to alter their arms while their hands follow along.
The golf swing is a scientific marvel and mystery too ... believe it.
The shaft not only flexes and unflexes; it twists and the tip droops approaching Impact. If there is a 'shaft plane', it fluctuates and meanders.
Lines drawn on video stills are only approximations, and even so, they are a best guess illustration.
Planes are useful for instructors as a diagnostic tool, but it's not real for the swinging golfer ... who can only direct their rotating body and attempt to alter their arms while their hands follow along.
The golf swing is a scientific marvel and mystery too ... believe it.
birly-shirly
New
My guess would be that in the lower half of the downswing arc, the forces on the club and golfer would tend towards clubhead movement within a plane. Not throughout the swing though.
This is one of the reasons I ask, Darius. Is there such a thing as the shaft plane? I doubt it, because the whole shaft is not moving on a plane as such. The "shaft plane" is actually just a representation of the movement of the clubhead, no?
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chipingguru
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You can call it whatever you want but you can't make a golf swing without being on some kind of plane.
Thanks for your input, but (at the risk of sounding like a schoolteacher) please read the question again. (Plane as a staight line concept eg plane board.
Kevin, may I ask the reason why you say no?
SteveT, I agree to a large extent with what you say about plane being a diagnostic tool, rather than a mental image which can be used while swinging. I also agree that path is more "real" and is a distinctly different concept to plane.
Birly, there can be no movement within a plane - either you're on a plane or you're not, no?
Kevin, may I ask the reason why you say no?
SteveT, I agree to a large extent with what you say about plane being a diagnostic tool, rather than a mental image which can be used while swinging. I also agree that path is more "real" and is a distinctly different concept to plane.
Birly, there can be no movement within a plane - either you're on a plane or you're not, no?
Plane is a difficult concept because WHAT is on plane or not is a tough topic. At impact, maybe part of the shaft is on "some" plane, but not the left arm. In another parts the left arm might be included in the analysis. In any case one is just trying to hurl the sweetpsot into the ball and coordination and path is what is needed to do that.
When is Jim Furyk on plane? In the backswing there are all kinds of peculiar alignments and then in the downswing he reverse tumbles (which flattens him a fair bit) but even then he is constantly shifting the downswing plane.
So if you have a golfer who is on constantly changing downswing planes, maybe it's too much to consider for a golfer in action, and possibly is just a tool for certain points of the swing for an instructor.
When is Jim Furyk on plane? In the backswing there are all kinds of peculiar alignments and then in the downswing he reverse tumbles (which flattens him a fair bit) but even then he is constantly shifting the downswing plane.
So if you have a golfer who is on constantly changing downswing planes, maybe it's too much to consider for a golfer in action, and possibly is just a tool for certain points of the swing for an instructor.
Well said.
Interesting aswers, because they show how vague the understanding of the whole concept of plane in the golf swing is.
Kevin's "no" is an answer which shows that he has probably changed his views on plane in the light of the recent developments. Is this correct Kevin? A yes or no will do.
SteveT's answer suggests that plane was always a dubious concept for the golf swing as a whole in his opinion.
Any scieintists/mathematicians out there? Can a plane be anything other than a straight line concept? ie can plane posess curvature?
Kevin's "no" is an answer which shows that he has probably changed his views on plane in the light of the recent developments. Is this correct Kevin? A yes or no will do.
SteveT's answer suggests that plane was always a dubious concept for the golf swing as a whole in his opinion.
Any scieintists/mathematicians out there? Can a plane be anything other than a straight line concept? ie can plane posess curvature?
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drewyallop
New
Succinct and, to me, a key insight. Trackman has doomed plane based methods and teaching in my view. Show a golfer how to zero out his path. That is all that is required (assuming no clubface control problems).
You can understand how plane sort of mesmerized the golf teaching world. It sounds scientific and it promised a simple solution to swing issues: get the club "on plane" and your problems are solved. But as SteveT and others have pointed out plane is a static notion and has nothing to do with a complicated dynamic motion where all the variables are changing over time.
Drew
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Yes, after the last few weeks the idea of drawing a straight plane angle is a total fallicy. I kinda knew it already and havent drawn one for years but now I wouldnt even use a plane board as a crude example of whats going on.
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