Planes/concepts and beyond

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The concept of plane(s) is essential in TGM. It actually started with Ben Hogan’s plane of glass and it has since then been mentioned in many books and articles. It is indeed very attractive to use one or more planes as it reduces complex 3D to a much simpler 2D environment. I remember once reading that Tiger Woods did not resort to ideas such as planes. Now with Haney as teacher that likely is not true anymore.

Concepts have two sides to them. One very useful as it facilitates communication and makes learning/teaching golf much easier. But concepts tend, especially when very useful and well known, also to limit interest in other possible ideas and concepts. In TGM there are many planes associated with almost every body part and the original simplicity of Hogan’s plane is definitely lost.

The modern compact rotary swing is quite nicely depicted with a very simple 3D model. Basically one main vertical axis and two moving horizontal axes, one through the shoulders and one through the wrists. There is no reference to any planes yet the model is very simple and very useful to learn/teach a simple compact rotary swing which is powered very much from the core.

It is interesting that Mark Evershed in “The Golf Solution” uses very much the notion of planes but his concept of “constantly correct clubface plane” fits very nicely into the simple 3D model.

TGM as taught by Yoda and Brian is a fascinating illustration of two different attitudes relative to the almost hypnotic attraction exerted by very powerful concepts once they are clearly defined and established.

Yoda sees TGM as the alpha and omega of golf, once and for all, nothing else to be discovered, all is fine as is. Brian ultimately primes his own hard learned knowledge/experience and seems to be open to other ideas as long as they work.

The danger, as is clearly to be observed throughout history, once the initial ideas are established, is that a great deal of energy is wasted determining the purity of followers instead of remaining open for new ideas.
 
Hogan said that too much attention is paid to the arc, and not enough to the plane. Now the plane is way overemphasized, IMO. As Swing Like a Pro Says, "there are no planes in the golf swing". The club is at a certain PITCH and follows a certain PATH but these don't coincide to make a plane. If you expanded the plane to be about 4 inches thick, then most good players might stay on (or in) plane. The plane is a useful generalization. To me, it's all about keeping your spine angle, a FLW, hitting off your left leg, using a throwing motion. The exact path (and pitch) you travel is not that important (as long as you hit through it from horizontal to horizontal correctly). The backswing path is not that important (why else would we have so many good players with different backswing paths ?).
 
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bts

New
The plane shifts, regardless of what you think, from address to finish..
 
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like homer would say its not that important wich plane you swing on just that you swing on some plane. So basically keep that left arm flying wedge intact and pic whatever plane you desire for the shot at hand
 
jim_0068 said:
3 words:

STRAIGHT PLANE LINE

In geometry, all lines are straight, all planes are straight. A line can lie on a plane. A line and a point not on that line define a plane. I'm not sure what straight plane line would mean.
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
mandrin said:
The danger, as is clearly to be observed throughout history, once the initial ideas are established, is that a great deal of energy is wasted determining the purity of followers instead of remaining open for new ideas.

Good point.
 
Nice post mandrin,

I think there have been some real breakthoughs with cause and effect that have been basically shunned or dismissed due to what has become popular myths.

The #1 thing that I like about Homer's work is that of the idea of educated hands. I did a lot of martial arts and found it interesting how long ago some guy figured out how to throw another guy across the room just by shaking hands. :) It always, back in those days, amazed me how people would say stuff like, "...a good boxer will always beat a karate guy." Now look what's happening.

The open mind opens the door to progress.
 
TGM distinguishes shaft plane and sweet spot plane. This, if it can be done by a golfer, would be an extraordinary feat. Just to remind that the plane concept is indeed very important in TGM.

azgolfer:
“Now the plane is way overemphasized, IMO.”

bantamben2:
“like homer would say its not that important which plane you swing on just that you swing on some plane.”

azgolfer/bantamben2, I don’t get the impression from above that the plane concept is considered all that important.

bts:
“The plane shifts, regardless of what you think, from address to finish..”

bts, the golfer can shift between various planes but the planes themselves, in TGM, don’t shift. Haney’s ideas are not part of TGM.

jim 0068:
“3 words: STRAIGHT PLANE LINE”

Jim, your post is an example of typical TGM verbose, being insider’s jargon. ;) Someone new to TGM will have a hard time since lines and planes are two distinct entities and straight by definition.
 
Ya but to explain it wouldn't be that hard mandrin...

Or you could avoid the terms all together....

I think Brian uses something about a "follow the yellow brick road" or w/e....
 
Spike said:
Nice post mandrin,

I think there have been some real breakthoughs with cause and effect that have been basically shunned or dismissed due to what has become popular myths.

The #1 thing that I like about Homer's work is that of the idea of educated hands. I did a lot of martial arts and found it interesting how long ago some guy figured out how to throw another guy across the room just by shaking hands. :) It always, back in those days, amazed me how people would say stuff like, "...a good boxer will always beat a karate guy." Now look what's happening.

The open mind opens the door to progress.
Spike,

Teaching/believing/accepting that TGM covers all the zillions of possible golf swings discourages any further search. This is fundamentally wrong. Inevitably there will be, eventually, another HK, but with very different ideas. Nothing is really cast in stone.

Even if TGM covers lots of ground it is inherent to human nature to want to explore and stake out new territory. It is perfectly possible to teach/learn golf without any reference to planes. It is just an option not covered in TGM.
 
mandrin said:
Spike,

Teaching/believing/accepting that TGM covers all the zillions of possible golf swings discourages any further search. This is fundamentally wrong. Inevitably there will be, eventually, another HK, but with very different ideas. Nothing is really cast in stone.

Even if TGM covers lots of ground it is inherent to human nature to want to explore and stake out new territory. It is perfectly possible to teach/learn golf without any reference to planes. It is just an option not covered in TGM.

Actually I think Homer realized that what was between the two covers may not be complete or you may not find exactly what you were looking, thus the 'X' classification.

It is difficult to accept that there is new territory to be discovered regarding the golf stroke given all the marketing hype that comes out by everyone trying to make a buck. That is not to say that it can't happen. I guess someone could define a new component but more than likely it seems that it would have to be some combination of the ones listed, but time will tell.

I am one who doesn't subscribe to the average golfer using TGM to develop a golf stroke, I think it is better served that instructor learn TGM. Then they can use it along with their experience and skills to develop their teaching styles, methods, as how they will inform the student. But I am in the minority with this philosphy.

Teaching the golf stroke without teaching a plane, heck that was done for how many years before Hogan and is done in some cases today by instructors.

TGM approach is based on alignments which planes allow for description of those alignments.
 
Martee said:
Actually I think Homer realized that what was between the two covers may not be complete or you may not find exactly what you were looking, thus the 'X' classification.

It is difficult to accept that there is new territory to be discovered regarding the golf stroke given all the marketing hype that comes out by everyone trying to make a buck. That is not to say that it can't happen. I guess someone could define a new component but more than likely it seems that it would have to be some combination of the ones listed, but time will tell.

I am one who doesn't subscribe to the average golfer using TGM to develop a golf stroke, I think it is better served that instructor learn TGM. Then they can use it along with their experience and skills to develop their teaching styles, methods, as how they will inform the student. But I am in the minority with this philosphy.

Teaching the golf stroke without teaching a plane, heck that was done for how many years before Hogan and is done in some cases today by instructors.

TGM approach is based on alignments which planes allow for description of those alignments.
Martee,

History proofs that things always go forward; nothing is really cast in stone. A tiny example in the domain of golf is the findings by much respected scientists such as Prof Jorgensen and Dr Cochran.

They both came to the same conclusion that the larger muscles of the body had to participate in the golf swing there being not enough power developed by the muscles of arms/hands. They made however an essential mistake, not taking into account substantial energy transferred to the clubhead by joint forces.

Hence what was sure one day is challenged the next. Such is life. TGM one day will be considered as quite interesting but more useful/practical approaches will have taken its place. ;)
 
I don't see much of anything moving forward right now (in the mainstream)...

...

TGM is awesome....I think it will catch on eventually (err at least be recognized....or those who use it recognized anyway)....the internet is helping it seems...

...

But you're right.....

There is stuff beyond TGM....Brian (for example) has all kinds of his own "material"....

Whether it be derived from some kind of TGM concept or completely not in the book it's his own stuff.
 
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